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It's still a widely used weapon in any military, removing snipers from the game would be akin to removing Reality from the mod title...

unrealalex wrote:It's still a widely used weapon in any military, removing snipers from the game would be akin to removing Reality from the mod title...

So are cruise missiles and navies... Your logic is flawed.

gazzthompson wrote:if i had my way the sniper kit would be removed. i know its cliche to hate on snipers ect but they are never(ofc some times) used correctly , not even the marksman kit is used correctly 100% of time.


for e.g i was in a squad some guy asked to get marksman, SL said ok but you will stick with your squad !!! guy was like "yea yea ofc". we fighting it out, i die and check map.. where is marksman ?? 200m away on hill.

Define "used correctly."

It depends on that marksman situation, what direction are they facing? If they're facing the enemy then they're doing the right thing.

mrnothing wrote: Sniper's are trained to work either alone or usually with someone else, who would be the spotter. And unfortunately, because war has been taken into CQB area's where the stakes are higher, it probably has become a harder job for the sniper. But that doesn't mean there is no need for a sniper in a closed area.

....SNIP....

You're missing my point. Right now you have a marksman, who works with a squad and is capable of delivering rapid, accurate fire at long range. Then, you have a sniper, who works in a sniper team and engages fewer targets of high importance at even longer ranges. What you want is a sniper that engages targets in a rapid fashion at shorter ranges. So, essentially, you want a marksman with an even more accurate rifle that operates outside of a squad.

The thing is, engaging multiple targets in a short span of time at range is marksman's job. He has an entire squad to back him up and he is usually in the thick of combat. Having a sniper with a similar job would be a little pointless, if not downright dangerous to the sniper. A bolt action rifle, accurate at longer ranges is fine even in an urban environment. The sniper should rarely get himself in a situation where he absolutely NEEDS to engage multiple targets rapidly. His spotter is there to help him out in case the two need to retreat when things get hot.

I do agree on urban snipers losing the ghillie suit, on the other hand, as it makes little sense in an urban environment.

daranz wrote: What you want is a sniper that engages targets in a rapid fashion at shorter ranges.

Not exactly. That job like you said, would be up to the marksmen and his squad. What im trying to say is to have a sniper that is suitable in a CQB area, yet able to maintain his role to analyze the battlefield. But because where talking CQB, its most likely a sniper would be caught into the heat. With the help of a regular BDU and semi automatic rifle, the sniper has better chances of getting out of the situation if he is in it.

For example - let's say your in a good position and your helping to escort your squad to a certain checkpoint. If you were to come across s squad of enemies, you have the opportunity to take out the target's so that your squad can maintain ammo and health.

With a bolt action rifle, if you take out one guy, yes it's great, but your gonna have to wait 1-3 seconds just to cycle a round. And in those few seconds, the enemy can find cover. With a semi automatic rifle, your able to take down the target's quicker, and chances of taken the whole squad down is possible.

I'm really getting the feeling that you watched Black Hawk Down recently and want to be 1337 snipzorz kit like Shughart and Gordon.

Now here's some things to keep in mind, the Marksman and the Sniper kit are both "zeroed" or will be zeroed, at 600 meters. So the range is theoretically the same. The Marksman kit is semi auto, whereas the Sniper Kit is bolt action, the Marksman Kit generally has a smaller caliber round, the Marksman Kit does not have the same zoom level as the Sniper Kit.

It would seem to me that the Marksman already is the "CQB Sniper" you're looking for, but you want the kit to be more leet.

mrnothing wrote: But because where talking CQB, its most likely a sniper would be caught into the heat. With the help of a regular BDU and semi automatic rifle, the sniper has better chances of getting out of the situation if he is in it.

if you get caught and stay and fight, you screwed up. getting out of a situation is not about shooting the enemy, its about running away.

mrnothing wrote: For example - let's say your in a good position and your helping to escort your squad to a certain checkpoint. If you were to come across s squad of enemies, you have the opportunity to take out the target's so that your squad can maintain ammo and health.

helping to escort your squad? thats not what snipers do. snipers give intel / take targets for the guys with rifles on the ground.

mrnothing wrote: With a bolt action rifle, if you take out one guy, yes it's great, but your gonna have to wait 1-3 seconds just to cycle a round. And in those few seconds, the enemy can find cover. With a semi automatic rifle, your able to take down the target's quicker, and chances of taken the whole squad down is possible.

get a DM kit. snipers are still very useful in urban enviroments, i see people get kills and feed intel with them just fine.


you may want to research what snipers do...
very short overview of what snipers do
YouTube - US Navy Seal Snipers

what snipers DO NOT do
YouTube - PR 0.8 Sniper

Tirak wrote:It would seem to me that the Marksman already is the "CQB Sniper" you're looking for, but you want the kit to be more leet.

/Thread

'[R-COM wrote:TheScot666;849739']Well you don't really need a CQB sniper, it contradicts itself. A sniper is for long range shots, but CQB is CQB I can see what you are saying, but I don't think it's needed as the role can be filled by the marksman. Also to contradict myself again, snipers can be used in the city, check this video:

Thank you [R-COM]TheScot666 for the true video on how the the few best snipers out there coordinate. As I watched the video, I found myself counting out the seconds before each shot. It was exhilarating.

But, as some of us know, there are DEV's out there with a vivid imagination that thinks all snipers are like this instead... Including some players too. =D

PR 0.8 Sniper

Gaven wrote:Define "used correctly."

It depends on that marksman situation, what direction are they facing? If they're facing the enemy then they're doing the right thing.

map was mestia, he wasnt with the squad, and because of this had no direct sight to the enemy that where at a distance shooting at us, if he had a different kit he would of kept with the squad. but for some unknown reason certain kits like marksman players want to act differently, they constantly drift from the squad and need constant SL attention to keep them close.

No means to be rude, but i disagree. Snipers are a very important part of the battle field, whether they are engaging high priority targets, engaging targets that pose a threat to any friendlies, or observing and collecting important information that could be used later. People who don't use it correctly are probably those who want to choose a kit last minute and then run around like there rambo or something.

thats exactly what im talking about, yes if used correctly (hence 99% not 100% , though i was exaggerating , more 90%) it is effective like you said, but 90% of the time its not used properly. and tbh for intel gathering, you can do it with any kit, why need sniper or even spec ops?


alot of people big up sniper usage on forums, for e.g.

"i was covering my squad as they moved in on a position". really means "i was sniping on a hill and my squad happened to move within 200m of this area"

"i was killing priority targets". really means " i was shooting first person i saw"

you get the idea.

the only good that comes from sniper kits are it keeps certain players out of my squads. and in there own one man locked "sniper" squad.

^^What is the problem with shooting at everything you see when you are actually hitting everything you shoot at?

You will kill more people thus taking away tickets, you will keep the enemys heads down making it easier for friendly guys to get into the flag area, you will get enemies looking for you thus taking away boots from the fight.

Your way of sniping doesnt HAVE to be the correct way.

Waaah_Wah wrote:I disagree.

If they are far away 300+ meters, you SHOULD fire at them. Large group = lots of targets, usually slow and with little coordination (if we are talking 10+ people here). It will take them time to find out where the shots are coming from, and when they do, half of them will be dead. If they DO spot you, simply drop some smoke, possibly a tripflare wich you set off yourself to tell the stupid ones where you are and run away.

They will most likely folow you, but if you are 300+ meters away, getting away shouldnt be a problem. And if they are searching the woods in hope of murdering you, they arent capping or defending flags.

Simply stay away from that area for the next 20-30 minutes because you will have alot of angry people with firearms after you

gazzthompson wrote: thats exactly what im talking about, yes if used correctly (hence 99% not 100% , though i was exaggerating , more 90%) it is effective like you said, but 90% of the time its not used properly. and tbh for intel gathering, you can do it with any kit, why need sniper or even spec ops?


alot of people big up sniper usage on forums, for e.g.

"i was covering my squad as they moved in on a position". really means "i was sniping on a hill and my squad happened to move within 200m of this area"

"i was killing priority targets". really means " i was shooting first person i saw"

you get the idea.

the only good that comes from sniper kits are it keeps certain players out of my squads. and in there own one man locked "sniper" squad.

I agree 100% with everything you just said. I always found it kind of stupid that people think snipers are the only viable kit to gain intel with, especially now that every kit has binoculars.

Man, teamplay is the key for snipers! If everyone playin as sniper would use a spotter, the world would be a better place! But of cource nobody wants to play spotter, everyone wants to kill!*couch*

mrnothing wrote:What im trying to say is to have a sniper that is suitable in a CQB area

Your talking about a Marksman....

mrnothing wrote:For example - let's say your in a good position and your helping to escort your squad to a certain checkpoint. If you were to come across s squad of enemies, you have the opportunity to take out the target's so that your squad can maintain ammo and health.

Thats the job of a markman again, and a good squad member always stays with is teammates, not 400m away. A solo sniper should always get a Spec op guy or anyone with binocs plus a carbine/assault rifle. Its basic.

mrnothing wrote:With a bolt action rifle, if you take out one guy, yes it's great, but your gonna have to wait 1-3 seconds just to cycle a round. And in those few seconds, the enemy can find cover. With a semi automatic rifle, your able to take down the target's quicker, and chances of taken the whole squad down is possible.

You are answering your own question !

I think he just wants more zoom on the marksman.

At any rate, after you've been prone for a while it shouldn't take so long to recover your aim from slight movement. As it stands if you start to swivel your scope even a few inches you might as well have gotten up and ran in circles first. This, this is the real issue with sniping in urban environments where the targets are on the move most of the time. At 100+ meters is doesn't take much movement of your rifle to arc over a wide area so I'm not entirely sure why your aim is so bad in game. I mean, last time I checked I stayed dead on with my M16 while arcing the rifle left and right several inches. Combine this with bipod use and the prone position and it should be real easy to keep your accuracy up.

Tirak wrote:I'm really getting the feeling that you watched Black Hawk Down recently and want to be 1337 snipzorz kit like Shughart and Gordon.

No. the last time i watched i BHD was like a year ago. And they weren't assigned to give surveillance in the area. If they were, im sure they would have a more powerful rifle to take down target's from a longer range. They volunteered to secure the area until reinforcement's arrived to extract the downed pilot.

There's a difference between being a assigned a mission, and volunteering.

viper759 wrote:if you get caught and stay and fight, you screwed up. getting out of a situation is not about shooting the enemy, its about running away.

helping to escort your squad? thats not what snipers do. snipers give intel / take targets for the guys with rifles on the ground.

get a DM kit. snipers are still very useful in urban enviroments, i see people get kills and feed intel with them just fine.

1. Running away won't help because your position is already compromised. It's only a matter of minutes before the enemy's knocking on your front door. And just because your caught in the middle of the fight, doesn't mean your screwed over. Yes your position is known, but distance is still a factor that is in role. You've still got the distance and capability to take down the target's, even though the enemy knows where you are.

2.Not exactly escort, but to assist in helping your squad or another squad get to a certain checkpoint. And no, sniper's are NOT always given a "given intel" mission. It is common for a sniper to do a mission like that, but not all of them do the same thing. There made for more then just feeding back intel to the SL/CO.

3.It's hard to give intel when you have an objective on top of that. A soldier's main role is to complete a mission given from the CO or SL. That's why a role like a sniper can take off stress the squad so they can feed back intel.

gazzthompson wrote:thats exactly what im talking about, yes if used correctly (hence 99% not 100% , though i was exaggerating , more 90%) it is effective like you said, but 90% of the time its not used properly. and tbh for intel gathering, you can do it with any kit, why need sniper or even spec ops?

Because unlike a sniper, a squad is constantly given objective's by the CO to do. It's not like you capture a base, then you leave for the next one. First, your gonna have to secure that area because the enemy is obviously gonna want it back. Then your going to have to wait for more squads to help and assist. And who knows, that can take much time for it to happen. Sniper's on the other hand, have the ability to stay covert from enemies sight, yet able to feed back valuable info.

Jay wrote:I agree 100% with everything you just said. I always found it kind of stupid that people think snipers are the only viable kit to gain intel with, especially now that every kit has binoculars.

Like i said before, sniper's are used for more then intel feed back.

Howitzer wrote:Your talking about a Marksman....

Thats the job of a markman again, and a good squad member always stays with is teammates, not 400m away. A solo sniper should always get a Spec op guy or anyone with binocs plus a carbine/assault rifle. Its basic.

1. No. A marksmen again, is a squad member who is called upon when shot's are needed to be made that a regular rifleman can not do.
There's a difference between a regular squad member, and the sniper who has the ability to do specialized mission's that the ordinary squad member can't do. This is no rambo game where you can run around with a M14 and shoot everything in sight.

2. if you were a CO or SL, would you want to put a sniper who has the greater ability to do certain mission's a normal riflemen could do in a squad where the squad is doing street to street fighting ? I don't know about you, but if i had a sniper in my squad, i'd put him in a position where he is able to feed back information, or if a certain target needs to be taken out, i could ask the sniper himself to do so. Or if i need to confirm a enemy squad or vehicle is coming my way, i can ask a the sniper to do so.

Ok now you have said what your special sniper is NOT , you can start saying what is is ?

-What would be is weapon ?
-what would be is secondary weapon ?
-Is equipment ?
-What else could make is an "urban sniper"

Alrigh here is what my dream kit would be for cqb




http://www.dogfightink.com/SPR.jpg



And of course i would have to include grapple, smoke, grenade, field dressings.

Howitzer wrote:Ok now you have said what your special sniper is NOT , you can start saying what is is ?

-What would be is weapon ?
-what would be is secondary weapon ?
-Is equipment ?
-What else could make is an "urban sniper"

explain how im saying a sniper what it's not. All im saying is that sniper's are a key asset to the battlefield. Your saying, if im not wrong, that those objective's can be accomplished by a advanced marksmen who still has the role of a squad member.

As for equipment, all im saying is to change the sniper's weapon to a semi automatic weapon that is more suitable in a CQB area, where target's appear quicker, and the delay for cycling a new round should be eliminated because the delay can mean a difference for an enemies spotting you and shooting you, or escaping and telling the rest of the squad where your position is - or being able to eliminate the enemy(s) in a shorter time.

Marc-5ive wrote:Alrigh here is what my dream kit would be for cqb


http://www.dogfightink.com/SPR.jpg

And of course i would have to include grapple, smoke, grenade, field dressings.

The weapon of choice would be up to the DEV team (all I'm saying is to change it to a semi auto weapon - not being specific on which one) but of course that could be one suggestion.
A field dressing is pretty much already included, and i don't know about grenades, but a grapple could help with certain places a sniper could use for a good overview. But so far, the default equipment is good enough.

mrnothing wrote:explain how im saying a sniper what it's not. All im saying is that sniper's are a key asset to the battlefield. Your saying, if im not wrong, that those objective's can be accomplished by a advanced marksmen who still has the role of a squad member.

As for equipment, all im saying is to change the sniper's weapon to a semi automatic weapon that is more suitable in a CQB area, where target's appear quicker, and the delay for cycling a new round should be eliminated because the delay can mean a difference for an enemies spotting you and shooting you, or escaping and telling the rest of the squad where your position is - or being able to eliminate the enemy(s) in a shorter time.


The weapon of choice would be up to the DEV team (all I'm saying is to change it to a semi auto weapon - not being specific on which one) but of course that could be one suggestion.
A field dressing is pretty much already included, and i don't know about grenades, but a grapple could help with certain places a sniper could use for a good overview. But so far, the default equipment is good enough.

What you are talking about falls under the purview of the Marksman Kit. You want a semi automatic, somewhat less accurate rifle so that the sniper can take down an entire squad so he can cover infantry. This is the job of the Marksman Kit. The Marksman provides accurate fire and covers his squad at ranges further than the standard rifle. Yes, he is also called upon to make especially difficult shots, but everything you want your CQB Sniper to be is already embodied by the Marksman Kit. Once more with feeling, the marksman kit fulfills this role already.