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Operation Archer will be adjusted for v0.85, it will (probably) be a better experience for the OPFOR side of things, and appropriately will make BLUFOR more interesting as well.

[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:Operation Archer will be adjusted for v0.85, it will (probably) be a better experience for the OPFOR side of things, and appropriately will make BLUFOR more interesting as well.

I like the sound of that.

Op Archer is a turkey shoot like no other. USMC takes the high ground (they always get it) and just lock the map down from the heights. Any .50's you roll out are quickly waxed from the hilltop fort and the mosque is under constant effective fire. Ins are forced to hide in their hovels and wait for JDAMs, or co-ordinated assaults where they are again at a disadvantage with piss poor weapons.

Like all Ins maps, it's a lot of fun to play John Wayne for a few hours as USMC pulling up easy kills against enemies who feel like NPCs from Delta Force games (or similar) just waiting to get popped by you and your buds. Commanding is a hoot too - all your strategies work, and all your squads are successful unless they're manned by lepers. Not so much fun to be the Insurgent with no options though.

It takes so much to screw this map up as NATO - your biggest opponent is the clock.

It sort of epitomises the problems with Insy atm.

Ppl will hate any map, until they find suitable tactics for that. Archer sucked for me too, until I found that 50 cal and nailed 2 enemy squads with it This thing is a beast when used wisely.
The keyword for INS is: ambush.

Truism wrote:I like the sound of that.

Op Archer is a turkey shoot like no other. USMC takes the high ground (they always get it) and just lock the map down from the heights. Any .50's you roll out are quickly waxed from the hilltop fort and the mosque is under constant effective fire. Ins are forced to hide in their hovels and wait for JDAMs, or co-ordinated assaults where they are again at a disadvantage with piss poor weapons.

Like all Ins maps, it's a lot of fun to play John Wayne for a few hours as USMC pulling up easy kills against enemies who feel like NPCs from Delta Force games (or similar) just waiting to get popped by you and your buds. Commanding is a hoot too - all your strategies work, and all your squads are successful unless they're manned by lepers. Not so much fun to be the Insurgent with no options though.

It takes so much to screw this map up as NATO - your biggest opponent is the clock.

It sort of epitomises the problems with Insy atm.

You make the map out to be worse than it really is.

If a cache spawns in the village, the USMC have a hard time getting to it because it is surrounded by pure open ground. And if the US lays RPs within the city, they have a good chance of going down because so many insurgents spawn there.

I agree though that caches outside the village are harder for the US, but the Insurents have the major advantage of that hilltop next to the Hilltop which the US build their firebases on generally.

PS: Whenever the US builds a firebase on that hill, it usually takes resources away from searching for caches and whenever this happens, US usually doesn't win.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:You make the map out to be worse than it really is.

If a cache spawns in the village, the USMC have a hard time getting to it because it is surrounded by pure open ground. And if the US lays RPs within the city, they have a good chance of going down because so many insurgents spawn there.

I agree though that caches outside the village are harder for the US, but the Insurents have the major advantage of that hilltop next to the Hilltop which the US build their firebases on generally.

PS: Whenever the US builds a firebase on that hill, it usually takes resources away from searching for caches and whenever this happens, US usually doesn't win.

Like I said, it's a race against the clock. If the US builds their firebase atop the hill, then they shut down the map for the Ins, but will lose to the clock. The have an absolutely great game for a few horus, and are just unlucky enough to not see the right screen for a few seconds at the end.

If two caches spawn in Village, then the US might have problems until they Area Attack it and move in. If for some reason linked to advanced leprosy they are unable to JDAM the living **** out of it, then two squads moving in together can do it. Granted it's not a walk in the park, but it's a lot easier than anything the Ins have to do on this map.

Finally, the .50cals. The ace in the hole. They're nice. I just don't think that A) it's enough, or B) it's very insurgentlike to be running around with soft skinned heavy machine gun support in lieu of running anything basically resembling an actual insurgency.

Insurgency has divided the PR community this release. Almost anything I write here about Archer is probably mostly true of other Ins maps, and has probably been covered to death in other threads.

Truism wrote:Like I said, it's a race against the clock. If the US builds their firebase atop the hill, then they shut down the map for the Ins, but will lose to the clock. The have an absolutely great game for a few horus, and are just unlucky enough to not see the right screen for a few seconds at the end.

Did you read what I just put up? Building a firebase a top the hill gurantees that the US will spawn there rather than search for caches. It doesn't matter if they have scopes and spam rockets down, they have to go into the village to get the cache.

If two caches spawn in Village, then the US might have problems until they Area Attack it and move in. If for some reason linked to advanced leprosy they are unable to JDAM the living **** out of it, then two squads moving in together can do it. Granted it's not a walk in the park, but it's a lot easier than anything the Ins have to do on this map.

How many people actually even go CO? No body anymore. And a JDAM will not win the game alone. The insurgents have an easy time holding Village because like I said, it is surrounded by a desert and open terrain.

Even if the US moves in after a JDAM goes off, where are they going to put their RP so they can spawn back in if they are wiped out? The Insurgents have the best advantage in the village and can easily win by taking advantage of it.

Finally, the .50cals. The ace in the hole. They're nice. I just don't think that A) it's enough, or B) it's very insurgentlike to be running around with soft skinned heavy machine gun support in lieu of running anything basically resembling an actual insurgency.

The point isn't to run around in technicals/.50cals on this map, the point is to camp a spot and wait for the US to come and bottleneck them. If you are using them like a humvee, then you are using them wrong. The terrain on this map doesn't allow it.

Insurgency has divided the PR community this release. Almost anything I write here about Archer is probably mostly true of other Ins maps, and has probably been covered to death in other threads.

Everything you wrote couldn't be less true. Korengal and Ramiel are probably the most balances maps in this whole MOD right now. I don't know where you get off saying they have divided people. This map has a few problems, but that is only because a lack of spawns. Ramiel and Korengal don't have that problem.

Ramiel has that problem. Korengal- just a little.

The map can be good IF both sides are good, very good.
Wich means 99% of the time;
- insurgents are bored out of their minds because US cant figure out how to move around, making it impossible almost to defend the fringe-caches without drowning in your own tears.
- the map is faaar to easy for US, 1 squad with good pilot can take out all the (very predictable placed) caches within 15 minutes.

Just played a full round of Archer on TG, went US sniper and finished 26 and 0. Sniping is so damn easy on that map.

I like the map design but its extremely boring and frustrating to be insurgents. Aside from being completely outgunned, especially against ACOGs, the biggest problem for the insurgents is their transportation. It's hard for insurgents to really defend any cache that isn't in the main city with the mosque in it.


My team won with about 190 tickets to spare, and the k/d ratios were extremely lopsided in the US favor. Map is a little broken IMO.

Love the map, but being insurgent is lame.

IAJTHOMAS wrote:No, he means the glitch where you appear to hover above the crest of a mountain at range, when in fact you are behind it, allowing you to be seen (but not hit) while you can only see the dirt in front of your face.

Well sitting on top of a huge hill is a death warrant either way.

hx.bjoffe wrote:- the map is faaar to easy for US, 1 squad with good pilot can take out all the (very predictable placed) caches within 15 minutes.

I just played the map on Tactics and Teamwork and we lost the round with at least 4 caches left. And yes, we had really good squads as well, including mine, but we weren't able to take out the caches without losing a lot of tickets because of the open ground. We had about 4 good squads and a firebase on top of the hill and good pilots, but the insurents won because they were able to draw our tickets down and use their hideouts.

Open ground should favour the guys with scopes and it does seem a fairly open map to me though nicely detailed

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Did you read what I just put up? Building a firebase a top the hill gurantees that the US will spawn there rather than search for caches. It doesn't matter if they have scopes and spam rockets down, they have to go into the village to get the cache.

And as I said it just doesn't. Matter. If the US takes the high ground, they have an awesome round, and might not get the caches. If they don't, then they still have a better than even chance of winning because of how hard it is to spawn as an insurgent. Killing a hideout costs the ins team one hell of a lot more than losing a firebase does.

How many people actually even go CO? No body anymore. And a JDAM will not win the game alone. The insurgents have an easy time holding Village because like I said, it is surrounded by a desert and open terrain.

On TG, every round. But even on GSA, if there is something that needs a commander, someone will step into it briefly to drop the bomb. And what open terrain is a problem? Get firebases up, get humvees, get fire superiority, use your scopes, use your specialist weapons (sniper anyone?) and the Insurgents won't be game to show their heads within sight of "open ground". Do any two of those things, and insurgents will be seeing black screens for most of the game. Insurgents can't. CAN'T win firefights against US forces without some kind of massive situational advantage - being in the village is not good enough.

Even if the US moves in after a JDAM goes off, where are they going to put their RP so they can spawn back in if they are wiped out? The Insurgents have the best advantage in the village and can easily win by taking advantage of it.

If the JDAM doesn't kill the cache, and the US has to move in, they can set them outside of town. The village is not ideal, in fact it's the hardest thing in the map for them. But it's the only hard thing. That's why two caches spawning there are close to the only way to win it legitimately (by beating the US, and not the US losing to the clock). Rally points should never be set in the AO itself - set them a hundred meters back from where you intend to make the front line (I thought everyone knew this these days). If an insurgent manages to get through the 2/3 squads cluster****ing village, then you probably deserve to lose your rally.

The point isn't to run around in technicals/.50cals on this map, the point is to camp a spot and wait for the US to come and bottleneck them. If you are using them like a humvee, then you are using them wrong. The terrain on this map doesn't allow it.

The terrain on this map (sight ranges nearly as far as Kashan in some places) is absolutely crying for insurgent 50cal use. It's how they win it without very lucky cache spawns. If insurgents work miracles with their technicals and shut the map down to the US (the opposite of what normally happens with the hill), then it makes hunting the caches more difficult.

If the insurgents just passively sit around and wait for the US, then they will lose for two reasons. Firstly simple maths - the insurgents have to defend all three caches at once, while the US only has to attack one at a time. 10 against 25 or 30 isn't nice odds. Secondly, the US have access to better transport and spawn points - they can be in a lot more places a lot faster if the Insurgents don't do anything about it. Both of these problems are compounded for insurgents by the fact that individual US squads are more effective than individual insurgent squads.

Everything you wrote couldn't be less true. Korengal and Ramiel are probably the most balances maps in this whole MOD right now. I don't know where you get off saying they have divided people. This map has a few problems, but that is only because a lack of spawns. Ramiel and Korengal don't have that problem.

Korengal and Ramiel? Try Qwai and Kashan, OGT and Kyongani, Sunset City and Muttrah, hell Barracuda if the US understands how their bleed works. I appreciate in places what the Devs have tried to do with the new insy maps, but I still think it's a joke compared to AAS and Counter Attack (which is imo the best mode, but we took the only map that did it properly out of the mod, RIP Zatar).

And secondly, it has divided the community almost perfectly in half. There was a polled thread asking whether people liked Insy or not, and it was almost perfectly 50/50. That's a textbook division.