Project Reality Forums

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:Because the T-72 model looks prettier.

Well, ok, works for me. But still, mirror balancing assets is not good, especially not when we're talking battles between a tank designed in the early 70s and some of the best warmachines of the 21st century. Sort this out by giving the NATO-armies less tanks than their MEC-opponents, maybe? For every Abrams/Challenger there should be two T72s. Would be a more interesting way to balance things out.

Enough whining - the model is awesome. And I can stand ridiculuosly mirror-balanced T72/Abrams-battles until the next patch is released.

M-60 lol id love to take on an abrams in a Patton, jut because

STORM-Mama wrote:Well, ok, works for me. But still, mirror balancing assets is not good, especially not when we're talking battles between a tank designed in the early 70s and some of the best warmachines of the 21st century. Sort this out by giving the NATO-armies less tanks than their MEC-opponents, maybe? For every Abrams/Challenger there should be two T72s. Would be a more interesting way to balance things out.

Enough whining - the model is awesome. And I can stand ridiculuosly mirror-balanced T72/Abrams-battles until the next patch is released.

I like how folks equate the Abrams to some sort of sci fi tank when it went into service only 9 years after the T-72 and has been upgraded just as much as the T-72 has....

The difference is the electronics the Abrams has and some of the upgrades, but the T-72 is far from some sort of Sherman tank fighting in todays combat environment.

Guess its some where in the middle ?

Blakeman wrote:I like how folks equate the Abrams to some sort of sci fi tank when it went into service only 9 years after the T-72 and has been upgraded just as much as the T-72 has....

The difference is the electronics the Abrams has and some of the upgrades, but the T-72 is far from some sort of Sherman tank fighting in todays combat environment.

The reason for this is that the first thing that comes to mind is the Abrams complete pwnage of the Iraqi T72s during Desert Storm. That's not what I want to see on Kashan.

It might have been the Iraqi tank crews that screwed up, but it's still obvious that it won't be realistic to mirror-balance the T72 with the Abrams or Challenger.

General Dragosh wrote:yuck......french tank...i dont seem to like it for some reason...is there no other tank to be used ?

It's a fine tank IMO, and it is in actual use by the FA and FFL, not like all their stuff is old y'know and remember they're in Afghanistan too. Also, the UAE doesn't really count as Opfor so they are likely to use Challenger 2's and Leclerc's as much as Saudi Arabia uses M1's lol.

The only old FA stuff from WWII still used I think is used in African countries and maybe South-East asia.

STORM-Mama wrote:Wait now... Why not replace the T90 when this new, unknown tank is completed instead of using some supah-T72 as a placeholder? I won't be able to take MEC/NATO armour combat seriously if the T72 is mirrored to the Abrams nad Challenger. We all know how poorly these things performed during Desert Storm, so making them just as good as the Abrams is kinda stupid...

Placeholder, sure, but why not let the T90 be that placeholder?

You do realise that the tanks Saddam used were really **** and were using steel rod penetrators, and on some occasions training ammo?

SuperTimo wrote:M-60 lol id love to take on an abrams in a Patton, jut because

U should try doing it with a T-55

AFAIK most of destroied Iraqi tanks were taken out with helis and aircrafts, not by Abrams

I like how folks equate the Abrams to some sort of sci fi tank

plus million

The United Arabian Emirates Buyed some Leclerc's Tanks why not these ? I lived 3 years in Arabia so i know those tanks fitting the Mec Army

STORM-Mama wrote:The reason for this is that the first thing that comes to mind is the Abrams complete pwnage of the Iraqi T72s during Desert Storm. That's not what I want to see on Kashan.

It might have been the Iraqi tank crews that screwed up, but it's still obvious that it won't be realistic to mirror-balance the T72 with the Abrams or Challenger.

The reason for the pwnage during desert storm was the type of static line warfare that the Iraqis were used to against Iran compared to the movement combat that the US was trained to do. If you can move and shoot you can almost always win against a static opponent that remains in a tank berm.

I'm not saying mirror balance, just that a lot of talk here makes the T-72 out to be some WW2 era tank against 'modern' tanks. The t-72 is hardly a 'relic' and can be used effectively, it just lacks the electronics and some of the newest armor upgrades that the challenger and abrams enjoy.

It is funny though as you dont see talk about how much the huey sucks because of its age (it doesnt either, just a comparison).

interest awakening news

but why is the T-90 inadequate for the MEC?

i guess because it has been only exported to india and no ME country has them IRL.

altrough is weird since the MEC arent exactly a RL thing , are they? .

[R-CON]77SiCaRiO77 wrote:i guess because it has been only exported to india and no ME country has them IRL.

altrough is weird since the MEC arent exactly a RL thing , are they? .

I always figured MEC could represent various countries in the middle east and thus could be different 'exact' countries depending on the map.

But yeah the T-72 is sort of the AK-47 of tanks, it is everywhere.

Blakeman wrote:The reason for the pwnage during desert storm was the type of static line warfare that the Iraqis were used to against Iran compared to the movement combat that the US was trained to do. If you can move and shoot you can almost always win against a static opponent that remains in a tank berm.

I'm not saying mirror balance, just that a lot of talk here makes the T-72 out to be some WW2 era tank against 'modern' tanks. The t-72 is hardly a 'relic' and can be used effectively, it just lacks the electronics and some of the newest armor upgrades that the challenger and abrams enjoy.

It is funny though as you dont see talk about how much the huey sucks because of its age (it doesnt either, just a comparison).

Have I been stamped as some ignorant "AMERICA-PWNZ-EVERATHING"-fool?

I've never talked about the 72 as a "relic". With the proper upgrades (as the ones they are using within the Russian Ground Forces) it can probably be a tough opponent for any western tank.
And the things you mentioned about lacking power in electronics and armour is exactly what I mean by this tank being obsolete compared to the Abrams or Challenger. How much fun will a direct engagement between a T-72 and an Abrams be in-game if the T-72 can't whitstand as much damage as its American opponent? Should the T72-crews be forced to flank enemy tanks in order to defeat them while the Abrams should be able to directly engage enemy targets without problems?
You can't "mirror-balance" these two tanks as it wouldn't be realistic. I can accept

And the Huey-comment is completely irrelevant. I have never really said that the T-72 is a worthless or even a bad tank, just that it's not as good as the tanks it will be facing in PR, turning it into a balance issue.

Tannhauser wrote:It's a fine tank IMO, and it is in actual use by the FA and FFL, not like all their stuff is old y'know and remember they're in Afghanistan too. Also, the UAE doesn't really count as Opfor so they are likely to use Challenger 2's and Leclerc's as much as Saudi Arabia uses M1's lol.

The only old FA stuff from WWII still used I think is used in African countries and maybe South-East asia.

I dont want to sound rasistic but i really dont like french, well french are second behind america on my list, i really dont like them, anyway french leclerc is way better than an abrams...

Whats even funnyer The first croatian Made Assault rifle (lightest in its class, was designed to work in different contitions like sandy places, cold places...its called VHS(no its really VHS its not really funny )) and its very similar to the famas... although they look similar if u look closely they are quite different

Update: oh and forgot to say it uses g36 polymer mags and has a very similar "cocking handle" or what ever that thing is called when u need to strain the spring after u shot all of your ammo

TO be honest if i remeber rightly in USI the Abrams and the T-72 where actually evenly matched it only the advanced electronics which did it in iraq besides the fact of complte air power by the coalition so actaully in affect both tanks are in a way even, even though the T-72 guns is bigger than the abrams

General Dragosh wrote:I dont want to sound rasistic

Well ya did

General Dragosh wrote:anyway french leclerc is way better than an abrams...

Source plx.

General Dragosh wrote:Whats even funnyer The first croatian Made Assault rifle (lightest in its class, was designed to work in different contitions like sandy places, cold places...its called VHS(no its really VHS its not really funny )) and its very similar to the famas... although they look similar if u look closely they are quite different

Damn that rifle has changed alot since I last saw it, do you know if its cunning balanced automatics system has survived the redesign? I'd love to know, but my skills in reading croation are somewhat lacking and theres a considerable lack of English sources on the matter (and I don't have a subscription to Janes, the only English source I've found so far that I'd actually trust)

General Dragosh wrote:Update: oh and forgot to say it uses g36 polymer mags

All the pictures I have seen have the latest version of the VHS use STANAG magazines (M16 type).

Whi are you replacing t-90 with t-72?This is some kind of downgrade.Plus remember that this conflict is not real, never happend and i think never will happen, isnt that supposed to happen in the near future, not the near past, by then the arabic countries may have moderniesed theyr armies.

Plus in desert storm t-72's had poorly trained crew's used **** ammo, and they where actualy not real t-72's, with diffrent armor, and im not sure about that- they havent been manifactured in Russia, and the Usa's aviation actually killed most of theese t-72's.I thin t-72 is a good tank, not as good as Challenger or Abrams, but if the t-72 crew is good trained they can destroy abrams.