Project Reality Forums

Most RPG-7 warheads are old designs and can barely scratch the armor of the Abrams MBT. But if we give the MEC forces something with a better penetration they'd have more than a chance against the US forces. We know that a bullet fired from a M1890 Mosin Nagant rifle is as much a lethal as the same bullet fired from a modern rifle, but sometimes giving modern equipment to a faction and old one to another unbalances things out. Just like if the German scientists would have finished their Vampir project, back in WW2.

Yes yes and yes. The T-72 would be the bulk of MEC's tanks, with the T-90 used sparingly as Russia would probably not be able to keep up with demand. I agree with the upgrades though, as they would also try to make them better since they have so many already. Besides there would be plenty of T-72s to fewer American or British tanks.

Also, PR has announced they modeled or are working on the model for it, so they have plans on adding it.

Russia only got 150 T-90s. They got more T-72s (9700) than T-80s (4500). It would be unlikley for the MEC to have a larger fleet of T-90s.

The MEC would be wealthy, if they were a real faction. The middle east is a very rich place. If they were to unite forces, they could very easily afford T90's.

JellyBelly wrote:The MEC would be wealthy, if they were a real faction. The middle east is a very rich place. If they were to unite forces, they could very easily afford T90's.

I agree, stop comparing Mec with the russians.

hmmm...... how about this,

a scenario of US marines invading an MEC position:
the MEC have BOTH the T-90s and the T-72s with upgrades. However, the MEC have 3 layered defense line so to speak (by line i mean concentration of defense and base). The T-90s only spawn at the rear most line, which is also the final line. The other 2 line (or more if there's more defensive line) have T-72s spawning. The marines have breach and occupy the final defense line of the MEC within the ticket limit, thus they will face increasing amount of resistance as they get closer to the final defense line.

The US hardware can only spawn from their first line, so at the final defense line of the MEC, the situation is practically equal, the MEC has T-90s spawning there, while the US has M1s spawning at their first base, of course the US has the advantage of infantry spawning closer to front line if they managed to breach the other defense line and turn it into their forward base.

This makes more sense i think since, no matter how rich the MEC is, affording and crewing a full fleet of T-90s everywhere like a normal army the size of the US army is close to impossible within reasonable time limit. But on the other hand, they could very well afford a number of these T-90s and then use the old T-72s to fill the gap. Such force would be unlikely to win head on against the US army, but given terrain advantage and solid position, they should be able to hold on their own.

Actualy, i think the T-80 is more all russian made tank then the T-90, the T-90 can be used by MEC and in future if PR will include Russia in it, Russians could use the T-80UK .

hmm ok ok... but whats about that.

for example: a map with 2 mec t-72 and only one m1a3 - you mean the t-72 is weaker, than they need two ok the game must be playable, but an t90... in the year 2020 ok... but nowadays for countrys like syria or the iraq?

Good, I still stay with and agree with my fellow people here with the T-90s in limited numbers, and the bulk of tanks would be upgraded T-72s.

Agreed. You can have a Middle Eastern army without T-72s!

Sgt. Jarvis wrote:Good, I still stay with and agree with my fellow people here with the T-90s in limited numbers, and the bulk of tanks would be upgraded T-72s.

Thats what I would be aiming for. Reality wise Russia hasn't produced alot of T-90s. So unless the MEC gets a license to produce the design on their own, I would happen to think the MEC could only get their hands on a limited amount of T-90 tanks. T-90s IMO should be assigned to elite units of the MEC armed forces. Only to to be seen in certain scenarios where the MEC are on key offensive strikes against U.S or U.K forces.

I think several upgraded models of the T-72 would be unique. Not just your vanilla DC T-72, but with several upgrades as posted earlier.

Ah that's another thing, they would be given to elite units, dispersed among the units though, and those units would also have their T-72s as the bulk force. But the T-72 with upgrades needs to be included, it's just silly to think otherwise because Russia doesn't have many T-90s to start with...plus there are so many T-72s already still in service with every country in the Middle East and beyond.

I am firmly against degrading MEC forces for "enhanced realism".

The historical context (no T-90s in the Middle East):

I see BF2 and PRMM battlefield set in alternate history universe where Soviet Union is very much alive and MEC exists as a federation of arab states similar to EU or USA for that matter. Given the vast resources of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc. it is not hard to imagine an army equipped with modern hardware originating from Russia (Soviet Union). Anything else does not make sense.
Most of our friends accross the big pond have this mental picture of MEC forces being an army of poor 3rd world countries or even rebels ("insurgents" if you like). I see it as a well equipped, trained and motivated modern army. I'd even go further and say that MEC are not necessarily the "bad guys". It's quite clear that US forces are the ones invading, agressors if you like. I know that will not go down easily for some people, but that's how I see it.

Ok, so we got the "historical context", what's next?

T-90 is too good?:
Talking about "realism" in a game where MBTs are manned by a single crew member driving and fireing the main gun with fixed sights, simple optical zoom and effective range of <500m is silly. Despite that, T-90 and M1 in game are pretty evenly matched.
So why replace it with T-72? One reason only - to make it easier for in-game "USA" forces. Irony is that T-90 IS a direct descendant of T-72. It IS upgraded T-72 in a way, unlike T-80 which has it's roots in T-64.

You're saying T-90 is too good - now let's see what's missing on T-90, shall we:
- Shtora active jamming system tasked with defeating ATGMs guidance
- Refleks cannon fired ATGM with range of ~5km (beyond effective range of M1's 120mm cannon)
- Late mark ERA providing excellent protection against HEAT amunition (yes, even tandem)
- Autoloader, unlike manually loaded M1
- possibly even Arena system for active defense against ATGMs
- automatic counter-measure deployment with rough bearing on the source of emmission (smoke launchers + quadrant)

I think, if used properly, T-90 could prove to be quite a match for M1s despite the fact that it's armour is not as effective as M1s (M1 is signifficantly heavier). On the other hand recent combat reports have showed that M1s armour is quite asymetric - side armour is not nearly as powerfull as front (stands true for all MBTs) and can be defeated even with weapons which are not top of the line.

Don't get me wrong - M1 is one of the best if not THE best MBT on the market, however have in mind that it never fought against anything more serious then early versions of T-72 (not even "Dolly Partons" *) no thermovision, primitive FCS, many not equipped/non functional laser range finder with obsolete ammo and poorly trained crews to match. And all that in an environment with absolute air superiority, intelligence data and even numerical superiority.

What I'm saying is that insisting on "realism" in such a way that would neither bring the game closer to a combat sim, nor enhance gameplay is just plain stupid.

Wanna enhance the realism? Remove ALL jets! Yes, ALL of them!

P.S. Why do You have to load a smoke round to fire your smoke dischargers?

Lol, might I add that it is also highly unlikely that an MEC faction would be formed? Half the middle east hates eachother, both on country vs country scale aswell as the waring tribal factor. It is hardly degrading when theres 2 or 3 upgraded T-72s to 1 Abrams.

Btw, why do you get the conclusion that we are saying the T-90 is too good for Arabs? There is no racism shown here with the exception of your post mentioning it. It's fact, there are limited numbers of T-90s, what are you going to do when there's not that many to purchase in the first place?

1 more thing, are you from England?

Yeah, the MEC is pretty much the dumbest idea ever and reinforces the rumor that Dice and EA are run by thirteen year olds

Wow so the one fictional thing about PR (MEC) is too much to deal with?

I think the MEC are fine, they should not be downgraded and I agree with AnarchyZG's post.

I don't mind a T-90, I just think the T-72 will add alot more variety. You guys also underestimate the T-72 modernization. The game can't simulate every single detail and feature of each vehicle, meaning in most cases your going to be engaging the enemy tank at close quaters etc. T-72 with upgrade has my go, but not as a replacement for the T-90.

Also, in terms of Storyline, I would happen to beleive that western influenced countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and now newly formed Iraq would have formed the coaltion against the western aggression for oil. No Soviet Union here or alternate realities. I would assume that the conflict with the MEC doesn't start until 2010 through 2015. Enough time to procure, organize and train their joint army.

AnarchyZG wrote:P.S. Why do You have to load a smoke round to fire your smoke dischargers?

You don't have to "load" it, it's a weapon switch. We wanted to include a zoom function and needed to free up a key, so the smoke discharger key was used.

Just because the T-72 is older than the T-90 doesn't mean that it's going to get raped by an M1A2.

Plus, the T-72 has a much more Middle Eastern military feel than the T-90 does

I would not mind T-72's with ERA and other such additions.

What i am glad about is the fact nobody has mentioned the Suicidal T-55 witch more loader's have been killed in than any other tank (including WW2 tanks). T-62's/T-55's that Isreal captured were upgunned (L7 105mm) and givern new tracking systems.