Project Reality Forums

ye i think the sniper should work with the SL for spotting

TempesT wrote:Indeed it would be a large help. I don't know about the realism side of it. It definently shouldn't be part of the grenadier kit. The realism behind the grenadier is that it packs a punch, but it is going to require a good judgement of distance.

So do snipers.

I think a mod should lock this thread...its stupid. Look, I love sniping as much as any of you but I doubt the US armed forces (or any for that matter) equip their snipers with a several thousand dollar pair of binoculars. What I (pretty sure)know they do is they get satellite photos of the area, print off or draw a map, and draw a grid and put ranges (in 100m) on it. Sure you guys don't have 100m markers on your maps, but all you have to do is get a feel of your surroundings; do some recon on your own and find out how far a place is from your approximate position. IF you DO need a range I doubt your squadie would mind placing a marker for you... seriously guys get some facts to back your arguments up. I can SEE how having the markers isn't realistic but as I said...recon the area on training and remember your ranges. If you want to be a REALLY try hard sniper get a few sheets of paper and write it down instead of remembering...

-1

Edit: forgot about mil-dot scopes...I've seen them but I'm guessing not every faction has them or they don't work?

NickO wrote:Please try accurately estimating distance on Kashan where the view distance is 2km or so.

You can only estimate according to the fog and if you know what distance the fog renders on all the maps.

I am actually pretty annoyed that they took the range finder out of the GLTD.

I have fired a head-shot on next to max-range.
I saw the fog right behind him.

Honestly, Im all for the sniper squads. Imo though, it seems a bit useless. I have seen snipers integrated with my squad in the game with great effects. The other day i was playing a game, the squad i was with were supporting a squad capturing a position. The rifleman scopes are great, but sometimes people are too far and the sniper is the only one who can reach and touch them. Having used the kit, I dont really seen the need for a spotter. Your rangefinder should be whether you made the shot or not. Fire and adjust.

That is not how a sniper works Agent 56, it's one shot one kill, not fire-away-until-you-hit-something. And surgical precision with the sniper can't be acheived without knowing distance.
In reality you would have mil-dot scopes, you could then use these to calculate exactly how far away your target is, but since this doesn't work in game, we need something else.


Suggesting using a SL to place markers doesn't work, since you can't have a SL in a squad with less than 3 people. And alot of the times, it's difficult enough to find 2.
Even if you played the old fashioned way, 2 snipers, 2 spotters, what is the second sniper team going to do? They will not have a SL to place markers.

qaiex wrote:That is not how a sniper works Agent 56, it's one shot one kill, not fire-away-until-you-hit-something. And surgical precision with the sniper can't be acheived without knowing distance.
In reality you would have mil-dot scopes, you could then use these to calculate exactly how far away your target is, but since this doesn't work in game, we need something else.


Suggesting using a SL to place markers doesn't work, since you can't have a SL in a squad with less than 3 people. And alot of the times, it's difficult enough to find 2.
Even if you played the old fashioned way, 2 snipers, 2 spotters, what is the second sniper team going to do? They will not have a SL to place markers.

Apparently no one likes reading the logical AND realistic suggestions...oh well. If you want to continue that way (with clan mates ofc) go in your 3rd party VOIP program and make 2 sniper squads. 2 snipers,2 medics, 2 specialists; one of each in each squad. If you are not in a clan then join one because your missing out on 50% of PR and vBF2.

SkaterCrush wrote:I think a mod should lock this thread...its stupid. Look, I love sniping as much as any of you but I doubt the US armed forces (or any for that matter) equip their snipers with a several thousand dollar pair of binoculars.

AN/PVS-6 Mini-Eyesafe Laser Infrared Observation Set (MELIOS) basis of issue plan: 1 per sniper team.

AN/PVS-6 MELIOS Basis of Issue Plan - BOIP

An they're not as expensive as you might think:

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns ... 33007J.jpg

This is equipment taken from a dead insurgent sniper team. The thing at the above right, between the plastic bags and the rifle magazine, is a Bushnell laser rangefinder binocular in its case. Their top model is under $500 US on Amazon, and with Amazon Prime you get free shipping.

Wrong I was...I just expect the electronics to calculate how the laser is going would be expensive

SkaterCrush wrote:Wrong I was...I just expect the electronics to calculate how the laser is going would be expensive

Well, the ones used by the US and UK militaries are definitely at least four-digits expensive. They have also developed a rifle-mounted LRF for unit leaders/commanders, snipers and crew served weapon operators. Both types can be integrated with hand-held GPS receivers to display target coordinates. Engineering blows my mind every other day.

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker;1003583']Well, the ones used by the US and UK militaries are definitely at least four-digits expensive. They have also developed a rifle-mounted LRF for unit leaders/commanders, snipers and crew served weapon operators. Both types can be integrated with hand-held GPS receivers to display target coordinates. Engineering blows my mind every other day.

Then you got shit like metalstorm...they made an M107 replica...except it shoots 3 bullets before the gun even recoils. I'm not sure how they'd spread at long ranges though

Seriously though put in range finders and next thing you know people are asking for spotting scopes and M82s (again)

About realism...
Lets say we have a static target at 500 yards.

In PR we just keep our scope to target for some seconds.

IRL now.
Lets say that we are at 500 feet altitude, temperature 59 F , 78% air humidity,standard barometric pressure.
Wind 5mph at 9 o clock.
Our weapon is a 0.308.
How we take the shot?

Fisrt we adjust the scope for bulletdrop.
For 500 yards distance we need 10.75 moa (minutes of angle).
Next the wind drift.
With 5mph cross wind we have 10" deviation.
Divided by 5 we have 2 moa left.
Now keep the gun steady and shoot.
Of course we tallking about ideal conditions here.
(For example if the wind is at 10:30 we have 7,07" wind drift = 1,4 moa)

After all these... is anybody who still wants realistic snipers in PR?

yes... it would make the 1337 effect go away

Actually I wouldn't mind doing that...well maybe take out some of the variables but I would like to account for the wind and MOA...also with the round you're chambering...but its not within engine capabilities lol...

My final opinion on this topic is to give the specialist a rangefinder set of high powered binoculars...if not that stop being lazy and become tacticool with approximate location distances and drawn out ranges...

SkaterCrush wrote:I doubt the US armed forces (or any for that matter) equip their snipers with a several thousand dollar pair of binoculars.

They do.

TopeH wrote:Snipers should have a somekind of spotting scope like this one, I bet that it has a rangefinder

It doesn't. That's a spotting scope. LRFs are seperate with their own aiming optics. The spotter will carry the spotting scope and LRF and the shooter carries the long. In terms of bringing it into PR, these are advanced tools that are used to supplement the existing skills of experienced snipers. They are not there to replace them. Personally I'd rather see an experienced sniper get a good hit on a long ranged target through experience of the weapon system, and not down to a random piece of shiney kit that can sometimes not be taken on task at all.

yeah but gaz doesn't need bino's he has a leprechaun instead.

Basically snipers are trained to use their scope or have the spotter use the spotting scope to estimate the range using mildots (for example, man shoulders are ~45cm wide, so if they fit in 0.8 mils the range is 562.25m). In reality you usually just use a lazer range finder to avoid having to estimate target size in cm and target size in mils, when possible. And sniper teams generally get to have one, it's not too expensive or whatever.

In any game that wants to implement ballistics you also have to list the bullet drop values, or else there's no way to realistically account for the (hopefully) realistic ballistics. Soldiers learn the exact offset they need to take at different ranges for whatever weapon they're using (when zeroed to the standard range). That kind of information needs to be available (and should be coded based on the ballistic offsets that happen in real life).

In reality you also compensate for wind, but since wind estimation is quite impossible with computer graphics (as it's based on very gentle movements of vegetation and other light objects that simply won't be rendered due to resources and/or not be visible due to resolution), there's no real point implementing wind offsets in a game, at least not until technology catches up to allow it to be done realistically.

Range markers on the HUD is totally dumb, and like all other HUD elements (or at least those that provide information you wouldn't know in real life) is very unrealistic.

I think currently it would be more useful for a sniper to have a grappling hook than a range finder. It's getting annoying when no engineer wants to get you up to a good hiding spot, or the helo pilot don't want to fly you there.

Dev1200 wrote:I 100% Agree with this, but also for the Grenadier kit, since it's impossible to hit anything unless you have either vast amount of luck, or a squad leader nearby. And since those two things aren't always at hand, the grenadier's usefulness at long range is definitely hindered.

Or to save space for the kit, put a built-in rangefinder on regular army binoculars?

Sniper yes, Grenadier no. I would think its a bit unrealistic, when in the middle of an intense firefight-

"JOHNSON!! (ze grenadier) HIT THAT BUILDING NOW!!!!"

Johnson: "SIR! I don't know how far away it is! Whip out your SOFLAM pl0x!!"

Nah, its just not practical to put down your weapon to get out a rangefinder when in an infantry firefight. Sniping, yeah. You're a bush 1km away from the target, and they have no clue you're there. But when a grenadier, you need to be able to get them shots off, quick.