Coaxial machine guns

[McBumLuv]

No, the reverse. The Gunner sees the correct tracers (Except for the tracer bug), while the driver sees the tracers going straight with no deviation (not what's happening). Likewise, the Driver also only sees the main cannon's round hitting about 5 meters above it's true trajectory.

[nick20404]

That can't be right. Maybe I am such a good gunner because I am the only one who realizes that the tracers only go straight and appear to fire randomly.

If you don't believe me feel free to actually try it out your self, ask anyone who has ever driving for me and they can tell you I am a good shot. I figure if I only used one part of the cross hair display to fire coax I would be missing to much to get 80+ kills in a tank.

But really I encourage you to go test it out for your self since obviously most people think its the other way around!

[Jaymz]

Go hop in the game right now have someone stand in the distance and shoot at them don't move the turret at all he will see all the bullets going into the same spot.

I'll try explain this again,

• The gunner in a Tank/APC will see his rounds deviating just as the deviation code defines
• Other players will see the rounds travelling in a straight line because the deviation of the rounds isn't visually networked.

That is exactly what you are saying, so I'm agreeing with you here. But what you're not understanding is that in terms of hitting people all that matters is what the gunner sees.

The hit detection is client side. So the rounds that the client (in this case the tank/APC gunner) sees are the only ones that matter.

Understand?

[nick20404]

I understand what you are saying but what I am saying is that the tracers for the gunner are not accurately representing were the bullets are traveling, take for example an older version of PR were the tracers inside the gunner seat went straight, now it would seem you guys changed the tracer pattern but left the actual path of the bullets the same.

I am just using what the driver and anyone outside the tank sees as an example of how the actually bullets that impact are traveling. The bullets pretty much travel in the same way as the mounted SAW's.

but I understand what you are saying.

[LithiumFox]

Obviously you do not understand what they are saying, or what you are talking about really has no relevance to anything

In a nutshell, there are two things you could be saying

1. Other people on the server see no deviation, thus it goes in a straight line and not where the bullets are actually hitting. - Which is true

or

2. Other people see where the bullets ACTUALLY go, and only you see the deviation, thus if you just keep shooting in a straight line, you're more likely to hit -- Which is false

Have you ever thought that shooting in a straight line might make you more accurate because:

A. You're bad at aiming for deviation, either because of poor marksman skills or the fact, like in my case usually, that your mouse over does your movements, making it harder to aim on far away targets

B. You're actually aiming at the target, and maybe a bullet will deviate in the "right" direction

C. Your brain is making things up as you go, and you don't really exist.

??: I think I would trust a Dev, who codes the game, probably helps test the game a little, and over all has to DEAL with the limitations on a daily basis rather than a typical player who, for some reason, seems to be making less sense than if Jesus came back and said Scientology is the correct Religion

That would suck! *get up to heaven* "Sorry.. seems you made fun of Scientology.... no heaven for you."

But yeah.. Dev > commoner

[nick20404]

What I am saying in a nutshell is that coax guns shoot in a straight line but after .7/6? they made the tracers appear so the rounds were not going straight which is false.

My original question was why they decided to change how the tracers acted.

[lucky14]

He is saying that when you gun, you see more deviation that is not actually there than anyone else in the game, who does not see the deviation, because in the game, it isn't there.

So from the gunner's point of view, the tracer he sees is not going to where the actual bullets are going to.

[nick20404]

Exactly.

[LithiumFox]

"He is saying that when you gun, you see more deviation that is not actually there than anyone else in the game, who does not see the deviation, because in the game, it isn't there.

So from the gunner's point of view, the tracer he sees is not going to where the actual bullets are going to."

Actually, the gunner is seeing where the bullets are actually going, the other people do NOT see where the bullets are going..

I saw this "straight deviation" in action earlier while on Kashan, which what was said by the dev earlier made me realize what happened...

Mesarim was gunning in a tank i was driving, He shot from a good 700m, thus a tank round would deviate.

Well, What i saw was a shell go off about 20m well beyond what he shot, but at the same time enemies were flying into the air, dead.

It appears to me that the gunner is seeing the actual deviation. What you are forgetting to take into account is that everyone's aiming system is different based on the area of the server. Sometimes the deviation will hit targets more, sometimes it will hit less. Deviation is calculated client side- as are hitboxes. But hitboxes are also recalculated to adjust for lag. Deviation may or may not be. Where other people see the bullets hit are not really where the bullets land. The bullets land where the CLIENT, or otherwise the GUNNER sees them, not where OTHER PEOPLE, otherwise, the SERVER, sees them.

[Mariospeedwagen]

The coax guns are definately LESS accurate since the changes. As the gunner you see the true deviation, however you do not see the actual rounds, just the tracers. That's what's throwing you off.

[cyberzomby]

And like the dev also said: Tracer rounds are slower than the rounds you dont see so thats why they dont represent the accurate bullet path

[Mongolian_dude]

Everyone else pointlessly explains the relation of client/server deviation over and over again, wich i can imagine is very frustrating for nick right now.
I'll reitterate what I think nick has said.
The coaxes are surgically accurate, while lots of missleading tracers sprawl elsewhere giving the impression of deviation.

I really dont think this is the case. It would be especially strange considering no other weapons in game suffer the same effect. For example, the M230 30m cannon has lot of deviation, and where the rounds appear to be hitting, explosions and the dead immediately follow; impying that the deviation is in effect as it appears to be.

From extensive personal use, it would seem that the rounds are infact deviating as the gunner views, as I find it extremely effective to just spray the weapon like a water-hose and hail down droplets of tracers and unseen rounds onto their position.
You'd have to call me lucky that I kill anything, if these tracers are a farce like nick claims.

...mongol...

[Cpl.Small]

right, here's the simple answer. The gunner sees where the rounds hit, other people don't, they just see a straight line coz the deviation doesn't work for them. and seeming it's the gunner firing only he really needs to see where they're hitting, so that he can adjust for it.

[Scot]

I think it may be that the non tracer rounds are hitting the target, you can't see them, you see the tracer rounds missing wildly, but you still kill him because the non tracer round hits.

[Psyko]

Everyone else pointlessly explains the relation of client/server deviation over and over again, wich i can imagine is very frustrating for nick right now.
I'll reitterate what I think nick has said.
The coaxes are surgically accurate, while lots of missleading tracers sprawl elsewhere giving the impression of deviation.

I really dont think this is the case. It would be especially strange considering no other weapons in game suffer the same effect. For example, the M230 30m cannon has lot of deviation, and where the rounds appear to be hitting, explosions and the dead immediately follow; impying that the deviation is in effect as it appears to be.

From extensive personal use, it would seem that the rounds are infact deviating as the gunner views, as I find it extremely effective to just spray the weapon like a water-hose and hail down droplets of tracers and unseen rounds onto their position.
You'd have to call me lucky that I kill anything, if these tracers are a farce like nick claims.

...mongol...

are you saying that you do think the coaxial guns are surgically accurate. because imo the gun isnt that accruate. and i have found that the tracers depict clearly where the rounds are going. but i allways thought it was because the server side programming is shite.

[Hitperson]

tracers travel at 75% of the velocity of the non tracer rounds therefore the range will naturally be shorter for those bullets.

to quote my self.

[motherdear]

that is exactly what mongolian said psykogundamn and that is what nick has been trying to explain to us the whole time. i do not agree with this assesment and neither does mongolian, but that is what nick is trying to say. it looks like there is deviation but in reality there is not.

[nick20404]

are you saying that you do think the coaxial guns are surgically accurate. because imo the gun isnt that accruate. and i have found that the tracers depict clearly where the rounds are going. but i allways thought it was because the server side programming is shite.

It actually is that accurate the problem is your following the tracers and believing they are going were they are going because of the ground impacts BUT in fact the bullets are not even impacting there and are traveling in a virtual straight line. Tired of trying to explain this but some people seem to kinda understand what I am saying. I tried to make a video today but its hard to get random people to cooperate with you in the training servers so if you really don't believe me you can test it for your self.

[Spartan0189]

There isnt anything wrong with the Coaxial machine gun...
It doesnt fly out of the main cannon like your shells/heavy rounds go out of.. They fly out of a smaller cannon next to the main cannon :-\
They are for infantry/suppression fire...