Project Reality Forums

Yeah keep nerfing the Jets,oh btw flares are NOT that efficient as you think,especially not with jets,many times i've been shot down despite dropping flares continously before the lock on.Hell most of the time you do not even need a lock onto kill AC,just fire towards general direction missile will do the rest.

Our jets have ridicolous engagement ranges view distances,have less flares no chaffs no radar,no jammers,jets can be heart while warming up from the other side of the map(enough time for mr.Noob to get back into his AA and wait for him),have limited view,worse handling and millions of threats to deal with.If it were for me i'd give AA's %40 chance of hitting a target.Because your main defence against enemy jets should be friendly jets.Average flight time with jets are now between 5-10 minutes in pub games,they have probably minus KDR's on average ,less than any other vehicle in PR most pilots cant do S&D or scout missions because its too risky and you still want to to kill almost every jet with a manpad?

To work efficiently with a jet you need
a)good pilot
b)flow of intel on enemy AC,enemy AA,enemy ground targets
c)good wingman
d)dedicated FACs with mics(a-10 excluded)

and you can still get killed by a friendly missile,blind missile,enemy jets,baserape,1 second connection problem(add HAT+APC+MBT+ RPG+HMG for choppers)

on the other hand all you need to kill a jet(considering you have noob pilots)
a)able to use mouse
b)playing PR with sounds on

AAs are so strong that even a player flying for the first time in PR(after RTFM) can kill a very experienced pilot,because all he needs is to spot him first,thats enough.

Engineer wrote:I'd really like to hear reasoning behind this one.

Read Alex's post, he got to it before me

Well, I made a thread about this beforehand, though it wasn't ever implemented (and I'm not sure if it's was explored or not, really. I never got a clear "Yes or No" to it's possibility). https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... locks.html

Was made a loooong time ago though.

Currently, PR maps are extremely short for any Air support anyways, so workarounds were needed. The biggest map in PR is 4 km, when some modern air-to-air long range missiles can lock up to 100 kms away, not to count Ground based SAMs.

2) Actually, most aircraft can detect IR launches and all sorts so it is realistic.

For example the apache HIDAS system (british apaches, but others use it aswell and most system will be somewhat similar).

Quote:The suite of sensors and countermeasures is 'mixed and matched' to provide optimal defence against specific threats: radar-guided anti-aircraft artillery; radar- or laser-guided SAMs; or shoulder-launched heat-seeking SAMs
http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Commo.../ew/HIDAS_.pdf
And according to the book "Apache" written by a pilot/gunner it can detect same launchers,m the direction from which it comes, deploys countermeasures automatically and tells the pilot the best way to evade.

yep, youre right, but it detects after launch, not before
i dont stand for nerfing air assets, but maybe whole ground vs air thing should be changed, give helis more flares, let them live more(flares, so they dont disappear in 2 seconds), reduce falling speed, allow pilot to drop them 1 by 1 or in pairs, like on jets, reduce maneuverability of AA missiles, reduce lock range for manpads, so if target is very high you cant lock it

no chaffs no radar,no jammers

you dont need chaffs or jammers because there is no radar at all in PR

Because your main defence against enemy jets should be friendly jets

why?

You're not supposed to be able to take out jets with MANPADS.

you can take out even F-22 with MANPAD if its so fool to fly low & slow

DankE_SPB wrote:yep, youre right, but it detects after launch,

Of course, but this is not really possible in BF2, therefore simulated by the 1/2 second delay (normally you fire when you lock anyway) and its a good balance between radar and IR missiles in the bf2 engine which are using the same system due to engine limitations.

DankE_SPB wrote:yep, youre right, but it detects after launch, not before
i dont stand for nerfing air assets, but maybe whole ground vs air thing should be changed, give helis more flares, let them live more(flares, so they dont disappear in 2 seconds), reduce falling speed, allow pilot to drop them 1 by 1 or in pairs, like on jets, reduce maneuverability of AA missiles, reduce lock range for manpads, so if target is very high you cant lock it


you dont need chaffs or jammers because there is no radar at all in PR

why?

you can take out even F-22 with MANPAD if its so fool to fly low & slow

If it's flying low, slow, close, going away from you and you've got perfect position and if he doesn't try and dodge. MANPADS are there to take out helicopters, not jets.

SA-7 GRAIL (9K32M Strela-2)

The SA-7a had a slant range of 3.6 km and a kill zone between 15 and 1500 meters in altitude, with a speed of about 430 meters per second (Mach 1.4)

never saw choppers flying on supersonic speeds

SA-7:

http://www.mcgraw-hillhomelandsecurity. ... rticle.pdf

Although
comparatively simple to use, even the later-model SA-7s are now
obsolete; their single-shot probability of kill with a 2.5-pound warhead
has been estimated to be as low as 25%.

Strela 2: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article

The small warhead had the drawback of low kill probability against jet, and especially multi-engine targets; as the missile homed in on the hottest spot, it typically hit only the afterburner nozzles, and due to the small size and instantaneous fuzing was not unusual that it failed to destroy even the engine that was hit.

SA-18

sa-18 grouse (igla 9k3 >

The 9M39 missile SA-18 employs an IR guidance system using proportional convergence logic. The new seeker offers better protection against electro-optical jammers; the probability of kill against an unprotected fighter is estimated at 30-48%, and the use of IRCM jammers only degrades this to 24-30%.

Air defense Weapons of the Former USSR & Russia

The new seeker offers better protection against electro-optical jammers; the probability of kill against an unprotected fighter is estimated at 30-48%, and the use of IRCM jammers only degrades this to 24-30%. The 2 kg. warhead is fitted with a contact and grazing fuse. The SA-18 has a maximum range of 5200 meters and a maximum altitude of 3500 meters.

Face it, the Manpads in PR are obsolete.

Remove warning , make missile a little bit less manovrable , and give more flares (around 100) and less time beetween flare poping.

Cut and paste from wikipedia:

"Infrared

Infrared shoulder-fired missiles are designed to home in on a heat source on an aircraft, typically the engine exhaust plume, and detonate a warhead in or near the heat source to disable the aircraft. These missiles use passive guidance, meaning that they do not emit signals to detect a heat source, which makes them difficult to detect by targeted aircraft employing countermeasure systems."

Man-portable air-defense systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Something has to be done, at least reducing the range of locking on with the SA7, if you have to wait until they're so close and going slow, and not dropping flares, in order to land a hit. Then, why are they alerted when i point my launcher at them 1000m away? From my understanding you don't even have to scope in and it still alerts them. I can understand working around limitations of the BF2 engine, but we're being forced to use illogical and unnatural techniques, in order to make the use of the SA7 effectively.

So you guys wanna nurf AA? Can you guys stop trying to fix stuff that simply isn't broken? Why can't you restore the .8 AA, and force choppers to move together (teamwork), and most importantly use flares. A chopper squad is most of the time a 'Black hole squad" full of people doing their own thing. Force choppers to use teamwork, and fly together, and pop flares in coordination, the more powerful AA will force infantry to take consideration to hunting AA guns (like in RL). Since when can a Frog fly low over an AA Avenger Humvee, and come out just fine because he spammed flares? I'm not asking for "God" AA weapons, just the .8 (or something along the lines of . AA system. Make jets fly high until they have laze. The most important thing of all MAKE PILOTS PISSED SCARED OF AA, like in real life. Just because ur in a chopper squad doesn't exclude you from teamwork.
plz dont flame lol

Actually just remove the AA warning for air assets until the missile is actually fired.

Somehow every second thing I lock on knows that I'm locking onto it and drops flares at the very moment I get a full lock!?

zaelu wrote: @ sakils2

I shoot down helos too but, only careless ones. Also, the warning goes on before you have the lock so the pilot can launch his flares well before you have the window to fire. Give the fact you always are hidden behind obstacles (you are not Rambo as AA kit ) your window of opportunity is almost null. I take AA kit only out of dispair when helis start rule the map.

im to lazy to read on to see if this was posted. but there is a 1/2 second delay between lock on times. And in that time the missle has usually reached its target on smaller maps like muttrah (except for the handheld stuff)

amazing_retard wrote:So you guys wanna nurf AA? Can you guys stop trying to fix stuff that simply isn't broken? Why can't you restore the .8 AA, and force choppers to move together (teamwork), and most importantly use flares. A chopper squad is most of the time a 'Black hole squad" full of people doing their own thing. Force choppers to use teamwork, and fly together, and pop flares in coordination, the more powerful AA will force infantry to take consideration to hunting AA guns (like in RL). Since when can a Frog fly low over an AA Avenger Humvee, and come out just fine because he spammed flares? I'm not asking for "God" AA weapons, just the .8 (or something along the lines of . AA system. Make jets fly high until they have laze. The most important thing of all MAKE PILOTS PISSED SCARED OF AA, like in real life. Just because ur in a chopper squad doesn't exclude you from teamwork.
plz dont flame lol

You want the choppers to need exteme amount of teamwork to survive, while 1 guy running alone with an AA kit is able to kill one without any worries what so ever?

I think i red from somewhere that most of the choppers were shot down with 50cals?

[R-CON]Outlawz wrote:Actually just remove the AA warning for air assets until the missile is actually fired.

Somehow every second thing I lock on knows that I'm locking onto it and drops flares at the very moment I get a full lock!?

That's what I was trying to suggest before hand. I thought it would have been too obvious not too implement if it was as simple as that, though, so I asked about a possible work around. https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... locks.html

Never actually got a complete answer, though seeing as it wasn't implemented I'm wondering what's happened with it...