Kill wounded players and another suggestion

[Spec]

Okay, this time the situation changed:

The Dev's said that in 0.9, you will be dead if you die within a minute after being revived. Fixes medic spam and is pretty close to "finishing", while being less cruel.

Edit: With dead I mean, really dead-dead. Like a Zombie who's shot in the head. You know what I mean

[R.J.Travis]

A molov cocktail will kill the wounded or a few grenades your pick.

[Tannhauser]

This is why your argument is flawed and kind of pathetic. The reason is that you are going too far into reality that has nothing to do with the game anymore. Do we have after round courtmartial trials or paperwork to account for warcrimes displayed after each round? No, that would be silly. This topic of finishing off wounded soldiers does, however, have everything to do with gameplay. The revive system heavily effects the way the game is played due to the ticket system.

I'm really tired of people complaining about the war trial/crimes factor, it's simply not a factor that has anything to do with this game. Tan, while you go buy Sim Genocide, don't forget to pick up a copy of Sim War Crime Prosecutor.

I'll buy that too

Then explain to me why there are consquences to killing civilians in the current PR release? Oh wait, it does have something to do with the silly paperwork of Sim War Crime Prosecutor.
Yes, because if we followed YOUR argument, we could kill civilians freely without having score resets and minus intelpoints. (And many here want consequences to shooting them to be even worse, get it?)
Why is that? Cause IRL they have to follow an ROE and the conventions whatsoever the case might be. They don't always do, and that's what is currently simulated.
Now, executing wounded prisoners? Follows the same pattern as with the civilians : it's either you can't at all, or you can (by some magical mean engine-wise) and you get score resets, intel point losses or even worse, like death after 3 executions (as for removal from the BF for court martial).

Is that REALLY necessary? Is that kind of dimension REALLY needed in comparison of civilians that are much more inherent to insurgency scenarios than execution of prisoners, wich is only a moral effect and has no logistic impact else than court martials and war crimes?

Also, how needed is this? Really? If the headshots come back, do you really think this will be worth the hassle, the coding, the messing-around, etc? So what? You will be happily running around, freely shooting at corpses that are probably already dead, feeling all good that you ARE SURE that THIS guy and this other guy, won't be revived by a sneaky civilian/medic. Will this look realistic, to see players run roam over dead bodies all the time, shooting them just to be sure? That doesn't look realistic, it will just encourage a rather stupid and gamey interpretation of war. If they do that IRL, i'm sure they don't all just run around and shoot dead bodies, have a good laugh, teabag them then bolster at how they are sure those guys are DED-DED, like it would look like in PR. And that for many reality reasons, including conventions, court martial, and the very mind of those soldiers that are not playing a game at all.


It's the same reason why you don't have an apache on a taliban map yet ; IRL they don't just roam around and bombard everything not NATO. They have to request permission to fire and have visual proof of hostile presence. If you put Apaches vs Taliban, the Apache will just fly around the map and wtfpwnzorz everything that does and doesn't move, unlike IRL.
On an endnote, something about games is that when they thrive for realism, you must be careful what you implement as you are NEVER sure it will be used realistically. That's why PR restricts many things from BF2. A good example is the vehicle drop. I'm sure EA/DICE never thought that players would use the infamous Cartillery as a WMD! lol, but they do, and that's why it's not in PR.
You can implementent stuff all you want, but if you're thriving for realism, the more you implement, the more risk there is of players using ''it'' in an unrealistic fashion.

I mean, if this was a WWII mod, then following your argument I could ask so on the japanese side, we'd get tons of tickets+intelpoints for torturing prisoners, yeah, that's realistic... And then this would get exploited as usual, for more /facepalm failness.
Get real, it's not worth it, and it doesn't have its place in PR.

[Drakenberg]

A molov cocktail will kill the wounded or a few grenades your pick.

Yes, That is true, but i´ve allready wrote that

And, it cant be done for each soldier really, but it works.

About it being realistic, being revived when shot in the head isnt realistic either...

And as stated, Rules are made for breaking. Deny it because irl it isnt ok to execute is unrealistic

I meant this in a non-medic spam way, its not that i get a hard on knifing bodies. It justs sucks when someone gets revived, then revived, then revived, then you die.

But that "shot withing 60 sec = dead-dead" sounds great and a good thing, allthough it would still be a neat feature to be able to hit a body twice from a distance and deny the enemy team that ticket.

And Please, lets discuss the topic. If you wanna show your knowledgeskills about modern warfare, please create a new thread in off topic section. I do not want this thread locked down because pepole went to ooftopic.

Thanks in advance

[google]

TannHauser, I completely agree with you that finishing off wounded soldiers is really not so important and shouldn't be on the priority list for gameplay tweaks. However, it is the reason that you argue against it that bothers me. I personally think that the Civi system is flawed and quiet frankly a stupid part of PR. I won't go into a full explanation as to why the civi system should be removed, but it simply doesn't work due to the fact that many people will simply engage civis and that the system is exploited (Using the civilians to lure Opfor soldiers is an excellent example). Also, young men in a known war zone looking at you with binoculars alongside one or two insurgent militants would probably be considered hostile anyway.

My point is this: proper ROE and legal aspects can not really be implemented up to a point. Yes, obviously certain aspects can be followed by limiting weaponry in the mod, but soldier conduct and ethics on the battlefield can not be enforced in a mod. Why? Because it's a game and players are hardcoded. As seen in the civi system, it doesn't work to try to force the player to follow certain rule that they can break. Gameplay aspects should be considered before simulative ROEs and battlefield ethics.

[Black]

'Can we have white phosphorous too? With uberwtfpwnzorz effects that show how you'd be if intoxicated by its residues? CAUSE IT'S REAL ... RIGHT' Umm that’s what that Tannhauser guy said, well since this is a game suggestion thingy, I guess he was asking if it could be put in, but no one replied to it, so do you think that it'll be able to be implemented.

[AnRK]

There's really not much point in arguing about this cos as has been said before this entire idea is not possible whether you agree with it or not.

Okay, this time the situation changed:

The Dev's said that in 0.9, you will be dead if you die within a minute after being revived. Fixes medic spam and is pretty close to "finishing", while being less cruel.

Edit: With dead I mean, really dead-dead. Like a Zombie who's shot in the head. You know what I mean

That's very good to hear.

[badmojo420]

The whole 'killing the wounded being against the ROE' is a soldiers choice, just like in the real world. Just because there is no punishment, doesn't mean anything. This is a game, there is also no punishment for incompetance leading to the death of your fellow soldiers.

I suggested a similar idea, but it was more of a change to the medic system. I suggested keeping the wounded soldiers in the 'critical state' instead of going down to the black screen. This way at least people would be able to visually tell who is still kicking and who is really dead. And the wounded soldiers could "crawl" back to where the medic is. Of course this wouldn't be perfect, but the BF2 engine kind of limits doing anything better. But alas nobody thought it was a good idea. Especially when i suggested removal of the epipen.

[Tirak]

The whole 'killing the wounded being against the ROE' is a soldiers choice, just like in the real world. Just because there is no punishment, doesn't mean anything. This is a game, there is also no punishment for incompetance leading to the death of your fellow soldiers.

I suggested a similar idea, but it was more of a change to the medic system. I suggested keeping the wounded soldiers in the 'critical state' instead of going down to the black screen. This way at least people would be able to visually tell who is still kicking and who is really dead. And the wounded soldiers could "crawl" back to where the medic is. Of course this wouldn't be perfect, but the BF2 engine kind of limits anything doing anything better. But alas nobody thought it was a good idea. Especially when i suggested removal of the epipen.

The punishment for TKs is a spawn penalty

[badmojo420]

I was talking more about people fleeing from battle and leaving their team mates to die alone. Or any soldier who goes against orders which leads to lives being lost. Stuff like that isn't exactly commended in the real military.

[Tirak]

I was talking more about people fleeing from battle and leaving their team mates to die alone. Or any soldier who goes against orders which leads to lives being lost. Stuff like that isn't exactly commended in the real military.

A death from leaving the battlefield is a suicide spawn penalty. Going against orders can lead to you being overrun or outflanked. While the mechanical RL following or orders cannot be replicated in PR due to players, enforcing penalties for war crimes (such as killing civilians, whether or not you think the current system is adequate) can be. Now the only way to make it so that you can "Finish Off" the wounded would be to give each weapon projectile an explosive property. Even if you were to make the area of effect to its smallest setting, you would still be able to shoot people around corners.


Ressugestion,

Please use the Search Function and the Already Suggested Suggestions List before posting suggestions.

[badmojo420]

Leaving the battlefield meaning running away to hide in a corner while the rest of your team gets wiped out. And yes i understand your team will be negatively affected by not following orders. But in the real military an individual soldier is punished for his individual actions. In PR the whole team is punished. I wasn't suggesting these things be implemented, just wanted to show an example of how reality translates to the game, only if the player wants it to. If you dont want to finish off wounded soldiers, then don't. But the option should always be there.

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

Direct quote from the *** list:


It's a good suggestion but its been suggested before and isn't possible AFAIK.

POSSIBLE!!

Try Point of Existence 2

[77SiCaRiO77]

yes POE2 has it , so its definitly possible.

but idont think is gonna be included TBH , taking in count all the work that has been made to make people be more frecuently wounded than dead , this feature would contradict the whole gampley the devs are aiming for .

[AnRK]

All depends on range though, you have to be up pretty close for this to occur, plus if you get your knife out to restrain/stab/carve your initials or whatever you see it as your not ready to engage other potential enemies.