Project Reality Forums

i dont think it even needs to be a test. i think it just needs to be limited to older members and in big font when you sign up say that "you cannot post suggestions before a month and 20 posts."

it's a good idea...

although it has to be considered that quite often those with the highest post counts are some of the most spammy lil trolls going ops:

Eh. I get his meaning. Hell no offense to anyone in the suggestion forums or anyone that posts a valid suggestion.

I read the suggestion forum for laughs. Thats the honest truth I get a pretty good chuckle out of the majority the things suggested. Most suggestions are a bit biased and people react horridly to them.

I've played PR on and off since .5, I've read the forums on and off since then. The suggestion forum and people react to it. The smartass elitest feel that comes from people first getting on being shot down by the players is a real reason I avoided this place for the majority of time.

Colonelcool125 wrote:Please, for the love of God, search before you post. This is the most suggested suggestion ever and now it's just a joke when anyone even mentions it. It's just not possible.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... -trap.html

To refer to more of that.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f257-v ... post943984

I am aware the moderation team needs to keep things in check and people will also post suggestions that aren't needed. However a small measure of time to prevent it is well enough. More so. Lets say I have a suggest and am new to the game. I can't post it myself yes? There are people on these forums you can PM and talk the idea overwith. I've spoken in detail via PM with a few members I shalln't name as I don't know if they want named.

Those members would either be longer standing PR members. (As I have been talking too.) or even a moderation team. Thus the idea gets filtered through a much more 'seasoned' player / member and two brains on set on it. Leaving the suggestion more hashed out then before.

Overall? I don't think its a bad idea. A test doesn't stop anyone from doing anything.

Three things bug me about the "resuggestion!!!" zealotry.

Firstly, https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... tions.html is far from compendious. Update that more compendiously, and more people will actually FIND previously suggested ideas in it, and think not to post.

Secondly, Project Reality Forums - Search Forums is rubbish, as is the advanced feature. I regularly find myself looking up my own posts to refer someone else to something; and despite having written these posts, and despite having a good idea of the phraseology I used, and despite being able to use the advanced search feature to ONLY pick posts from my exact username, I often am unable to find easily (or sometimes at all) posts I've made only a week or two previously. Given this, it's completely unreasonable to expect a new person to the board to search for something he doesn't even know has been posted, let alone to know the exact search criteria needed to find a specific item. Whenever I see certain mods saying "Use the search function" I get really angry, because in the back of my head I hear a voice saying "because that wild goose-chase will keep them occupied for half-an-hour before they get bored and go play something that doesn't have rude little dictators chewing them out when they're trying to make a contribution."

Thirdly, just because an impossible / unsuitable implementation of a concept has been suggested ad nauseum, doesn't necessarily mean quod erat demonstrandum. The fact of repetition is irrelevant in itself; however it also leads to other faulty cognitions.

It's ignorant to assume that just because a proposal was potentially ridiculous / laughable in the past, it should also be unsuitable now. The game has changed massively in the last few versions - when I started there was SL spawning, APC spawning, minimaps, no commander assets, etc etc. It is incorrect to conclude that an idea that was shot-down under those conditions must still be unworkable within the game engine now.

It's ignorant to assume that just because one aspect of a proposal is flawed or unworkable, the whole concept is; or even the opposite - that just because an entire proposal is flawed, every aspect of that proposal must also be.

And lastly, it's ignorant to assume that just because a proposal wouldn't completely remedy whatever issue the poster is proposing a change to, it must automatically be a flawed suggestion, or otherwise not worthwhile.

While the mods, devs, and other "official" types have free reign to preside over the forums, and thus the community, as they will; it doesn't mean that they can't be materially wrong in the way they do it.

I think that restricting suggestions (to some extent, not necessarily 100 posts) would help reduce the amount of re suggestions or silly suggestions, but as has been mentioned it would potentially block out good suggestions as well.

Regarding re suggestions themselves, I think there has been cases where good legit suggestions have been made and have been closed just because someone happened to mention the general subject before (a year ago in a thread that isn't directly relevant).

When that happens I presume/hope the developers have thought about them before or have them on some list somewhere in case they can be implemented.

Of course I cannot be bothered tracking down examples so take that statement with a grain of salt, it's just what I know I've observed.

Don't base it on post count as that will lead to spamming.

Personally, I'd just bring out the infraction 'hammer' more often.
Stop worrying about hurting people's feelings.

If someone (new or vet) needs to 'sit in the corner' for a couple of days because they have created 3 new threads consecutively all based on a complete lack of game/engine knowledge, so be it.

If they take their toys and go home because they feel unjustly treated, C'est la vie.
It's a frickin' game, FFS, get over yourself.

Ace42 brings up some good points about the search function in general.
Not sure how it works, but it could be 'smarter'.

if add restriction, its better imo to restrict it not to post count, but to a join date, so you cant post until you're a member of community for 1 month i.e. Restricting to post count will lead into a lot of spamming messages, just to take desirable 100 messages and post "me wantz fastropez NAO!!!111" Time restricting will assure, that suggester played game for a while, got used to it( i think i saw suggestions, which are already ingame)

Would be great if the amount of re-suggestions could be cut down upon. Trust me, as a moderator they are a right pita.

Yeah, like a day or so after you posted a topic in the suggestion forum, before you can start a new topic. It's sometime ridiculousness to see like 6 to 7 topics all in one line locked because it's a re suggestion. (and usually there are about 3 of 'em from the same person)

Ace42 wrote:Three things bug me about the "resuggestion!!!" zealotry.

Firstly, https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... tions.html is far from compendious. Update that more compendiously, and more people will actually FIND previously suggested ideas in it, and think not to post.

Secondly, Project Reality Forums - Search Forums is rubbish, as is the advanced feature. I regularly find myself looking up my own posts to refer someone else to something; and despite having written these posts, and despite having a good idea of the phraseology I used, and despite being able to use the advanced search feature to ONLY pick posts from my exact username, I often am unable to find easily (or sometimes at all) posts I've made only a week or two previously. Given this, it's completely unreasonable to expect a new person to the board to search for something he doesn't even know has been posted, let alone to know the exact search criteria needed to find a specific item. Whenever I see certain mods saying "Use the search function" I get really angry, because in the back of my head I hear a voice saying "because that wild goose-chase will keep them occupied for half-an-hour before they get bored and go play something that doesn't have rude little dictators chewing them out when they're trying to make a contribution."

Excuse me, but I Refuse. The suggestions thread is regularly updated when a MOD or DEV notices something is repetitively brought up, be it weapons or gamemodes, etc. That being said we dont always have the time to keep something updated to the day with all the ridiculoussuggestions we sometimes seem to get :\

I recently locked 5 threads in a ROW within 10 minutes and EACH thread was a resuggestion that was written in the ***thread. Its not a failure of the thread being up to dateas we get the same old resuggestions all the time

The search function works perfectly if you know how to phrase a question. Of course, people who title their threads "Wow look at this" and then wonder why we cant find things on search [because it either didnt show or they skippedover it in the results because of the title] Fastropesand whatever else all bring up results and Ive never personally had any problems finding an old thread to refer someone to
Project Reality Forums - Search Results

Im against limited the ability to suggest, but we could start hitting down harder on those who continually refuse to search/look at the *** thread.

Apologese for being a bit of a prick but its insulting to hear someone say we need to update more often a thread that A. people never seem to use anyway and B. Most forums don't even have something similar save for a FAQ

Why not put the Suggestions link in the AAS thread so they are forced to read the AAS thread before they enter. No "I don't know if this has been suggested" anymore.

Or perhaps as an automated PM that includes everything from the already suggested topic?
Since they'll get an e-mail notification and they can see it here on the forums, there's a big chance they'll open the PM.

Sure, make the welcoming PM have a link to the *** thread, and maybe make it so you can't post in that thread until a day after signing up, but don't make it so you need to spam or do a "test" before posting.

if they people really want to suggest stuf and cant find the suggestion forum thell just do it in the general area. it wont solve anything.

Try finding one example of each suggestion on the *** list (using the search function) and deleting all similar suggestions. When people start crying about their deleted threads, send them a PM. Their feelings are insignificant here.

Deleting unworkable/blatant resuggestions is the best way to cut down on the huge number of locked threads sitting in this forum.

Another problem is that moderators can be quick to lock threads only on the basis that they've been discussed before. A better approach is to allow such threads to remain open if the discussion will lead to a different conclusion than the original (for example, newer versions of PR). Whether a thread should remain open would be at the discretion of the moderator. Potentially great discussions have been cut short because they had been brought up before, in the distant past. Why not change the system to preserve some of them?

'[R-DEV wrote:OkitaMakoto;1006192']Excuse me, but I Refuse. The suggestions thread is regularly updated when a MOD or DEV notices something is repetitively brought up, be it weapons or gamemodes, etc. That being said we dont always have the time to keep something updated to the day with all the ridiculoussuggestions we sometimes seem to get :\

I recently locked 5 threads in a ROW within 10 minutes and EACH thread was a resuggestion that was written in the ***thread. Its not a failure of the thread being up to dateas we get the same old resuggestions all the time

The search function works perfectly if you know how to phrase a question. Of course, people who title their threads "Wow look at this" and then wonder why we cant find things on search [because it either didnt show or they skippedover it in the results because of the title] Fastropesand whatever else all bring up results and Ive never personally had any problems finding an old thread to refer someone to
Project Reality Forums - Search Results

Im against limited the ability to suggest, but we could start hitting down harder on those who continually refuse to search/look at the *** thread.

Apologese for being a bit of a prick but its insulting to hear someone say we need to update more often a thread that A. people never seem to use anyway and B. Most forums don't even have something similar save for a FAQ

IIRC, vbulletin forums have a function where new threads in a forum or subforum have to be approved by a moderator before being generally viewable. Is that a solution - it allows mods to police the forums and at the same time greet newbies who have resuggestions with a friendly 'good thinking but it's come up before' rather than shutting them down publicly every day

The point of my suggestion was mostly to help out the moderators. I know their job is frustrating and the point is to lessen their workload and help stop spammed threads. Maybe even have a limit to prevent people from creating new threads until they have a few posts and a chance to look around the forums. But allow it in the help section and whatnot.

I know that no solution is perfect but honestly something should be done.

Ace42 wrote:Three things bug me about the "resuggestion!!!" zealotry.

~rant~

Three things really bug me about some forum users:

1) When they post a brief post that is a resuggestion (adds nothing new to the debate of the topic) and that is then closed and then posts it again five minutes later saying "I posted this before but a mod locked it".

2) When they make passive-aggressive comments about the standards of moderation on these forums without once raising the issue in a mature, adult fashion through PM'ing the Lead Moderator to discuss it, as common decency and the forum rules state they should.

3) When they fail to realise that there are good, solid reasons for the "dictator (that one never gets old! ) attitude" taken by forum moderators when there are a mass of threads that all state the same thing over and over and over.

Take fastropes. It's the classic, near-legendary suggestion that comes up. Or, if you're more original - something like new jets or gears on vehicles.

Now, if someone suggests one of these topics - that has been discussed before and that has been rejected or declared unworkable or just not right for the mod - and if ten other people are all resuggesting different rejected, unworkable or unnecessary changes - if someone suggests one of these topics along with ten other people's resuggestions - then if you're trying to post a genuine, original, thought-provokingly good suggestion then yours is going to be sat in a bunch of other pointless threads that are being discussed for the tenth, twentieth, fiftieth time.


By locking threads that are clearly resuggestions, where there's clearly not going to be any major new development - it means that the only threads left open are the ones that either:

1) Allow the team to gauge the feelings of the community on a particular topic
or
2) Contain genuine original content that is worth considering for development

Anything else simply isn't needed. I'm sorry, but why should we permit endless discussion of whether or not fastropes are a good idea when a) they're not workable in PR and b) they're not necessary in PR?


Now, I'm sorry if that means that 50% of all new suggestions get locked - but this forum has been open a long time now and put simply, there have been a lot of suggestions over the years. We've got quite the back catalogue and believe me, it's hard to come up with anything truly new and revolutionary... trust me on this, I've tried - and the one thing I came up with simply can't be done on the hamstrung engine we've got available to us!

So, as much as I genuinely hate seeing people told "Sorry, resuggestion, please use search in future" - because I know that can be upsetting and mean the forum looks like it's moderated by bored mouse-clickers with nothing better to do - that's how it's going to be.


This forum's modus operandi is being reviewed, I will of course update the community when a decision has been made as to how it's to operate in future.


Regards,


Masaq
Lead Forum Moderator

Theres been some cool suggestions that have been implemented... but they are usually the smaller ones that are easy to do.

ie: enemy officer kit has ability to set rallypoint for SL.... small stuff like that that affects gameplay is usually easy to do, and alot of these have been implemented... but they usually get buried under the huge amount of suggestions for jets, snipers, fastropes etc.

As a developer I think we like the smaller suggestions or the ones that are not asset orientated, but have a useful impact on gameplay... lets face it, we'd much rather see an ASSET thread be in the community modding section than the suggestions forums.