Project Reality Forums

Snazz wrote: I don't doubt that soldiers IRL shoot on the move, but I presume it's for suppressing and not accurate at range.

Range is fine, but talking specifically about CQB, it's like a cheesey Hollywood action film, with the protagonists up close and personal and lead going everywhere but at the protagonists who are running around and diving behind things.

Just because you can't run around making zero-deviation shots like Quake does not mean that there is no rewards for skill or reaction time in PR.

Au contraire, the fact that you have to stay still for X seconds to make even close-range shots means that even the most rusty gamer has plenty of time to line-up a good shot before the lead can start flying. This is why most mid to close range gunfights turn into a totally inane game of chicken, with both people instantly going prone, and then WAITING to engage. Either the first person to panic gets lucky and takes out the other guy who's waiting, or they miss, adding more and more deviation back to themselves, leaving the other guy wide open to take his shot.

That just makes the whole thing unrealistic and arbitrary.

I agree with that, but I don't experience as much deviation at close range in PR as you describe.

Depends on my loadout and circumstances, but if I'm clearing out a building I find it very easy to miss someone in the same room with an entire clip, and that's solely because I am moving with speed to avoid getting door-shot. IRL when the military breach a door, they don't slowly edge around the door at a snails pace waiting to get shot up by defenders in the room, they charge it at speed to benefit from the element of surprise. ATM the game rewards the opposite, and a little fine tuning could maintain the long-range balance whilst improving the quality of CQB combat.

That just makes the whole thing unrealistic and arbitrary.

I can see your point but I don't think either of us really know how it's like in a real firefight, I would like to hear from someone who does though.

If we're talking about skill in PR overall I think there's plenty of demand for it, but in some areas there isn't such as AA missiles. Although the definition of skill isn't exactly universally agreed upon and it can be confused for knowledge.

I believe reaction times and impulses are still rewarded despite the deviation, because whoever is quicker and hesitates less still has an advantage.

Agree'd with that example Ace

Ace42 wrote:

Depends on my loadout and circumstances, but if I'm clearing out a building I find it very easy to miss someone in the same room with an entire clip, and that's solely because I am moving with speed to avoid getting door-shot. IRL when the military breach a door, they don't slowly edge around the door at a snails pace waiting to get shot up by defenders in the room, they charge it at speed to benefit from the element of surprise. ATM the game rewards the opposite, and a little fine tuning could maintain the long-range balance whilst improving the quality of CQB combat.

But they also nade first and breach in numbers. In cadets I was taught that for every person embedded in a building, 5 soldiers are ideally required to assault said building. Who ever is inside always has a greater advantage than those raiding.
That said, full auto/burst is very effective in room clearance in game.

Ecko wrote:But they also nade first and breach in numbers. In cadets I was taught that for every person embedded in a building, 5 soldiers are ideally required to assault said building. Who ever is inside always has a greater advantage than those raiding.

Are you arguing that the inability to hit stuff while moving inside a small room with your sights locked onto the target is realistic because it models this 5-1 advantage? I'd argue that the fact that whoever is in the building knows the likely entry points, etc conveys that advantage, like IRL. And just because I can (and do) throw grenades into a room I'm going to clear, doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to hit what I'm aiming at when I get there.

That said, full auto/burst is very effective in room clearance in game.

What game are you playing? Unless you aim for someone's ankles, 2/3 TRB rounds will miss!

If you're playing PR for the close quarter battles (however unsatisfying they may be), I think you're missing the point of the game.

Charity Case wrote:If you're playing PR for the close quarter battles (however unsatisfying they may be), I think you're missing the point of the game.

Project Reality?

Statistically, however, most small-arms engagements occur within 100 yards.

M4 carbine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CQB are an integral part of the game, particularly in INS mode where fighting often occurs in close urban environments. It's not unreasonable to expect a little fine-turning to make it seem like less of a dice-roll.