Project Reality Forums

SSG Jay wrote:Since when, who takes the time to remove the tracer rounds from ammunition crates before loading them these guys don't say

If this is the case then randomiseing the tracers would be a good idea for all rebel forces, maybe some mags have a high number of tracers and others only have one or two (of course this is assumeing the bullets come loose and not pre loaded into the magazine)

also is it standard practice to have a ratio of 1 tracer per 3 standard rounds in a rifle? as this is what its like ingame (dont quote me on this as i really never use tracers to gauge where my fires hitting, i do it by splash as they hit the ground or building)

Yes in a real standard ammunition supply, both BLUFOR and OPFOR, the ratio comes in sequences of 3 ballpoints(or other special ammunition), followed by 1 tracer, there are cases of imperfection from the machinery that produce the rounds in sequence and have resulted in seeing a offcount in ratio, maybe starting out as 3 to 1 then moving on to 4 to 1 or 2 to 1, but rarely in case. Other than tracers being visible ammunition, they are also used to keep track of how much ammunition is left in your magazine rather than waiting to hear a suprising click followed by the next few seconds of being unarmed in possibly important time. When firing on nightfire drills I used the method and always did the 7 count which increased my reload time by 3 seconds and every second counts on the field.

I also know what it's like to take all the tracer rounds out of several ammunition crates for the m240B, very long and very boring.

SSG Jay: Do you have a source on this claim that insurgents use ammo that includes tracers?

Other than my tour through the streets of Baghdad.
Standard ammunition supplies come with the tracers, if you want those tracers removed you have to go directly to the manufactorer. If you believe insurgents really goto the manufactorer to get their ammo then I don't know what to tell you other than, I will tell the military so I can win some type of medal for discovering it and working with those people to abolish those factories for being so public on supporting their insurgency. And you can't say that the factories are in neither Iraq or Iran because that will just blow up into another big political issue about Iran supporting against America on the fight for Iraq.

Do you have source on the "claims" that they don't. Which was introduced by someone who hasn't been within 20 yards of a insurgent.

maybe this video is convincing. If you look closely you can see that tracers are being exchanged both back and forth from US forces to the insurgency that are firing upon them. All red and green in color. Tracers coming toward your direction tend to appear faster than those moving away from you so you have to focus if you are really interested in seeing.

That makes sense for things like the PKM, or the technicals 50cal, but i seriously doubt every insurgent is loading up their small arms with tracers rounds, just because they're included in the box of ammo. I'm not saying they don't have or can't get tracer rounds. But, i would assume that they would use a little common sense, and leave them out of their mags. I mean, if you're planning on ambushing a stronger enemy, which has bigger guns and area attacks, are you going to want a bright flashing light to be coming out of the end of your barrel? The only real advantage insurgent combatants have against the coalition is stealth.

But, i would assume that they would use a little common sense, and leave them out of their mags. I mean, if you're planning on ambushing a stronger enemy

And half of these insurgents dont even load up their ammunition. They get their magazines and their weapons thrown to them off a truck and they just pop it in and get ready to fire. They have even had some internet media videos from overhead views of insurgents unloading weapons prior to US invasions. They don't unload then say lets start checking this ammo.

It's not like they are sitting in a semi-circle before the invasion looking at every ammunition in a magazine to make sure there are no tracers. It's not only time consuming, but it's a war, they are already arguing that invasions of our forces tend to move in on their operations too quickly before it can be pre-assembled. Every second could be your last, you dont have time to worry about tracer rounds when a Heli could be flying in any minute to drop Hydras on you. It's entirely common sense to anyone who has to make every second count in their actions and their daily life.
Tracers are realistic on both parties.

Like i said as far as the game I just believe they should be less visible in the lighter maps than they really are and more visible in the darker maps than they are now.

Just because the individual combatants don't load their own weapons, doesn't mean there isn't some dude who does. Do you think they buy their weapons with pre-loaded magazines from major suppliers? And what? Since they're insurgents they never live long enough to reload an empty magazine?

This type of thinking would suggest that every landmine or anti-vehicle proximity IED would have a nice sign telling you there are mines here. Because that's what the supplier sends with their mines.

Give the insurgents a little credit, they're human beings also.

You think I am attempting to degrade their intelligence, which is not at all my agenda. Why waste all the time of getting a group of people to preload your magazine without tracers. There is no such thing as a Insurgency Special Operations or a Insurgency Special Forces who are special trained in covert and stealth operations that require them to always be undercover and silent. When they are around alot of them like to immediately make noise, yelling leleleleleleleelelelelele and ALLAH #$@$@#%@, the ones that know english yell shit like DEATH WITH THE AMERICANS, They dont give a **** about being silent or stealthed. Most of them will be happy to die as long as they killed atleast 1 person wether it was quietly or with a big bang. I think the viewers at home just have a different point of view because they haven't seen it all go down. The shit is crazier than people think it is and there is rarely a insurgent who will think to stay quiet in a time where they are almost sure to die, "Well if i die atleast i went out quietly", doesn't even sound right to me.

SSG Jay wrote:Why waste all the time of getting a group of people to preload your magazine without tracers.

Well at least you have 1 sentence that stayed on topic. But, how is it wasting time? They already have to load these magazines. Why would it waste any more time to load all ball rounds rather than adding a tracer after every 3 rounds? It seems like this would be faster. (Of course as i stated before, 50cal or PKM ammo that is linked in a chain is excluded from this, i am speaking only of small arms.)

The rest is all opinions about the enemy your fighting. Which i'll only respond to by saying, I didn't state that the insurgents use stealth very often, or with great success. Just the fact that it is one of their only advantages.

The small arms ammunition also comes on a plastic carrier and some of them come on belts as if they were going directly into a automatic rifle and are either loaded in order because its very fast since all you have to do is hold the magazine against the belt and press down, or seperated one by one, which takes forever to both seperate and load. The plastic containers though, could range in size anywhere from 10 to 1000 per container which are again in order from ballpoint to tracer.

Thats truely something I can't speak on because its time consuming for us but for them I don't know why they would if they do or wouldn't if they don't, take the take to seperate them.

From looking at pictures of weapons caches, i've found they usually get their ammo in metal boxes, with lose rounds packed in paper.

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/ ... 060213.jpg

http://www.mouseguns.com/ak47info/545ammo.jpg

Do those boxes even contain tracer rounds? Either way, it shows that it wouldn't be any more time consuming to load tracers or not. At least for insurgents with that type of ammo.

Dr2B Rudd wrote:keep tracers for 50cals and PKMs and u got a deal.

100% agree with Rudd,

It all balls down to who is supplying the ammunition because they get them from where ever they can, some may come in loose packs some may come in the crates and belts. It also depends if their ammunition is even categorized from its distinction, they could recieve maybe a crate full of ballpoints and then a crate full of tracers. It also depends on who is loading their ammunition if not them, I would naturally suspect that if they are doing it themselves they will not remove the tracers if there are any in the load, reason for that is because alot of them are not extremely trained fighters or have no knowledge of the situation of the war, they do have fighting camps but it's not to a very high extent, thats where you seperate Al'Qaeda from Taliban from Insurgency, from other OPFOR. Most of them have no combat experience and no real idea of military knowledge. They just know what they are tought, their religion and that we are the enemy. I read the Infantry magazine alot when I was still in and most of the interviews in the magazine from encounters with captured insurgents is that they don't know anything other than their religion and their beliefs and what they were told to do.


P.S -this is still about the insurgency tracers.

All that matters in this video game is the majority. What their preferred way is. What they try for. Not the exceptions, not what happens in a pinch. Hell, they might get their hands on some crazy explosive rounds from time to time, should we make all insurgents in game have those? All the time?

shouldnt really matter anyway,tracer rounds irl dont flare up until 100-200m so they dont let the enemy know where you are straight away

Well my disagreement on things with this game always start with people saying "Theres no this or that in real life", as far as the game goes, my opinion is the game needs a new name once it is no longer a Mod, that doesn't incoperate the name Reality. Then those tracers go either fly out the window or stay in.

I agree with this idea. i had noticed it back a couple of releases ago, but back then it wasnt entirly signifigant. but now that we have gone to a stage where insurgency is being tweeked for performance, it might just be interesting to remove them and see how it goes from there.

and for your enjoyment, one of my favorite GK scenes...

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remove the insurgent tracer rounds plox, its already hard when you dont have a scope and have to surprise the enemy

Thank you all for replies.

Now I got it for second time what you guys think about removing tracers. Many of you agree with me, some of you don't.

I want to hear from Peoples who are making this modification. Whether if Tracer was left intentionally or just forgotten.

I still think Tracer should be removed.

------- off topic thoughts---------
As I read replies, I noticed something. Maybe this discussion will almost never end. Infact will take about few decades to end.

It is a current issue. No one knows what Insurgent really do.

Never before in history of mankind, we had such an technology to depict a game out of current war.

This is new frontline we are discovering, thanks to modern technology. There is no right or wrong answer at this point. As we don't know what is the truth.

We will know the truth eventually though, just like with any other previous war. After 30 or 40 years the war is over, these stuff is no longer secret and are available for everyone to know. For example, Vietcong tunnels are now major tour industry for Westerners to visit, and we all can find information about specification on post war weapons such as Tanks and Fighters, which was heavily guarded secret, just like todays current Tanks and Fighters specification.

SSG Jay wrote:Since when, who takes the time to remove the tracer rounds from ammunition crates before loading them these guys don't say "Hey stop giving me tracers in my ammunition supply" they say "Give me more ammunition so i can put more rounds down range", that would take hours and days with weapons like automatic support and mounted weapon systems. But as far as the gameplay I think that they should just be less visible on lighter maps and more visible on darker maps.

because people hand load their magazines, and the likely hood of them HAVING tracers available to them is low. if it's a belt fed weapon then i would understand what you're saying but for mag fed weapons, unlike our Blufor guys they dont go to an armory where they have stripper clips ready, they reach into a drum of rounds and load them manually.