Civillians to kill or not to kill?

[Aquiller]

I would remove that useless class. A regular warrior kit can do recon for insurgents better than most of civvies.

Whenever you ask a coalition guy why he shoot a civi - the respond is sth like this: 'Who cares' / 'To annoy them with spawn time' / 'Get some!".

So, either full punishment AND civilian collaborator as a limited kit OR remove it.

Just my 2 cents.

[hiberNative]

like the OP, i want a developer's answer on this. i don't trust anyone else. just copy this check list and put an x in every kit that gives you a 1 minute cooldown after pulling it out in 0.86.

cellphone [ ]
resuscitate [ ]
unarmed [ ]
first aid kit [ ]
stone [ ]
epipen [ ]
binoculars [ ]
grappling hook [ ]

R-DEVS ONLY.
i'm tired of know it all players that all say different stuff.

[Spec]

Is it really that important what piece of equipment exactly "allows" you to shoot them?
Nothing should, except for the epipen maybe, because that would be countering something rather "gamey" with another gamey thing.

As a long time SWAT4-Player I fully support kicking and/or banning of intentional civ killers, we used to warn and if needed kick everyone from our SWAT4 servers who even shot armed suspects without a good reason (Those are mainly those that are accepted by the game as okay as well as some others such as suddenly appearing suspects or some that run towards you, the game counts those situations as unauthorized use of force if you kill them... but that has nothing to do with this here)

[akatabrask]

I'll say what I say every time this is mentioned. Civilian killers should have their name marquee up on the top of the screen. Then servers could ban intentional civy killers.

This.

I can see no reason actually why a civ-kill shouldn't more or less be seen as a team kill.

You are not supposed to kill team mates and you are not supposed to kill civvies, pure logic.

And thus, by displaying the name of the person killing the civilian, it's all up to the server admins how they want to treat the killer.

Also, to get my post on topic: Never, ever shoot at confirmed civilians (nor uncomfirmed suspected civilians) unless they're driving a vehicle or just manned a weapon.

[VapoMan]

Civilian killers should have their name marquee up on the top of the screen. Then servers could ban intentional civy killers.

I like that, it should be treated as a teamkill.

[hiberNative]

R-DEVs? where are you?

[wookimonsta]

As a long time SWAT4-Player I fully support kicking and/or banning of intentional civ killers, we used to warn and if needed kick everyone from our SWAT4 servers who even shot armed suspects without a good reason (Those are mainly those that are accepted by the game as okay as well as some others such as suddenly appearing suspects or some that run towards you, the game counts those situations as unauthorized use of force if you kill them... but that has nothing to do with this here)

well, i never properly played the game, but i did see the SpoonyOne Lets Play on swat 4. The thing is, there you can call to the people to get down on their knees to be arrested or they chance being either shot if they grab a gun or get tazed if they run. in this game, the civilians always just run off without fear of being shot or anything else happening. When i see this, i dont shoot them (as this would be civi killing). its still a pain in the *** when the civilian runs away just 5 meters ahead of you and you run out of sprint.
btw, can someone tell me how many shotgun shells it takes to get a civilian? i shot one from like 10 meters away 5 times, but he still just stood there. then he took out his medpack in the middle of the road and started healing himself.

to me it seems that the problem is that the ingame civilians have no real reason to choose being arrested over being killed, which is a choice that seems obvious to most real people.

think of it this way, in a real person
freedom > arrested > death
we would rather be arrested than dead (most anyways) and we would rather be free than arrested
in game however
freedom > death > arrested
the civilians would rather die than be arrested as this means that the enemy looses intel. either way they have a large spawn time.
if however, tne lowers the spawn time upon being arrested to the same as other insurgents, then there is a reason to be arrested (namely betray the team and get a low spawn time, or in real life terms, give up intel and survive)

[Peeta]

Why do you guys shoot civi's I mean seriously? If you really want to waste the time and intel to shoot a civi, you are an idiot. I think you need an account here and actually be required to read certain threads to dl this mod. Anyway thats off topic. The DEV's really need to fix this kit. I said before a ticket loss for the USA when a civi is killed unlawfully. The only problem is when civi's suicide. Also I dont understand the 2 minute spawn time when the civi DID NOTHING WRONG! its like....wtf..

[Spec]

well, i never properly played the game, but i did see the SpoonyOne Lets Play on swat 4. The thing is, there you can call to the people to get down on their knees to be arrested or they chance being either shot if they grab a gun or get tazed if they run. in this game, the civilians always just run off without fear of being shot or anything else happening.

Of course you can make them surrender, but some people don't care and shoot them anyway on sight - and this is similar to the "shoot civie on sight" mentality in PR. The main difference is the server size, in SWAT4 you only have 5 or 6 people to take care of.

[Viper5]

Shoot em in the leg, watch em rip out the bag, shoot em in the face.

[Zulnex]

When enemy soldiers are chasing me and I am running out of sprint - I always click on the suicide button. I will NOT give them the satisfaction of arresting me. I lose just a few points and do not have to wait for an eternity to re-spawn again. There are wounded temmates who are expecting to be healed - every second counts!
I have been shot many times for no reason at all. It does not bother me. They lose the points - not me!

[snooggums]

When enemy soldiers are chasing me and I am running out of sprint - I always click on the suicide button. I will NOT give them the satisfaction of arresting me. I lose just a few points and do not have to wait for an eternity to re-spawn again. There are wounded temmates who are expecting to be healed - every second counts!
I have been shot many times for no reason at all. It does not bother me. They lose the points - not me!

Your respawn time and 10 points of intel given are the same whether you are arrested or suicide, all you are doing is saving them the trouble of chasing you down...

[Peeta]

When enemy soldiers are chasing me and I am running out of sprint - I always click on the suicide button. I will NOT give them the satisfaction of arresting me. I lose just a few points and do not have to wait for an eternity to re-spawn again. There are wounded temmates who are expecting to be healed - every second counts!
I have been shot many times for no reason at all. It does not bother me. They lose the points - not me!

It amazes me that you must not have read the manual.

[Zulnex]

For your information - I have read the manual many times. Have a nice day.

[mat552]

Then there are the ones who mow us collaborators down with a SAW, and laugh at our two minute spawn time.

That's me. Mow 'em all down, the two+ minute spawns are so worth it, especially after you have every possible cache visible.

(Also I play base defense mostly, if I see you and you aren't bluefor, you're dead. No ifs, ands, or buts. Never take the chance you're spotting for something nasty.)

[Dekno]

Since I check all my targets that arent shooting at me already,I only kill civis who are in a group or near one,since chances are pretty high I wont get a penalty,if they are alone I usually resist.

[Pedz]

There are many flaws in the whole killing a civi thing.

For example

-If the OPFOR has both caches revealed theres nearly no penalty to the team if they shoot a civi. Only a bit of a long spawn for the shooter

-If you shoot a civi once and let them bleed to death it is allowable. As of course they cant heal them self and bleeding to death is treated as a suicide(happened to me on a few occasions)

And you will never get rid of the shoot any civi attitude as there are so many newcomers now that they just don't know why not (some are too young to understand shooting a civi is wrong ).

So yeah maybe shooting a civi for any reason should be punishable. Only if they are with a medic bag out or an epipen should they be shot as they are helping an insurgent force which could be seen as an immediate threat. None of these 1minute counters they just don't seem to work. People always shoot them as they know the one min timers most likely on the civi either because he got in a car or climbed a building...

But yeah you shouldnt shoot civis.

[Rudd]

I so wish that civi kill courts martials existed still/stronger penalities it makes me sad to see Bradleys/LAVs firing HEAT indescriminantly in to buildings

[Spec]

That's me. Mow 'em all down, the two+ minute spawns are so worth it, especially after you have every possible cache visible.

(Also I play base defense mostly, if I see you and you aren't bluefor, you're dead. No ifs, ands, or buts. Never take the chance you're spotting for something nasty.)

Excuse me, but that's like saying
"Yes, I know the rules of the game, but I ignore them"

It clearly is the intention of the civilian class not to be killed. This is a multiplayer game, think about the guys on the other side of the barrel, they have the same right to enjoy it...
If it's a fair fight, everyone is happy, but if the rules of the game are just simply ignored, noone is. Everyone is complaining about the civilian system. Why can't everyone just play the game as it's meant to be without being forced to by high penalties if they don't... -.- (Don't answer... I see why mirror balance looks like the only real solution for fairness, with that attitude)

Don't take it personal; as most people seem to think like that and I'm adressing every one of them with this post...

[Dug]

Basically devs, you failed.

Just read all the posts on this thread.

Sorry.

I couldn't agree more.
What is wrong with you people?
Shooting civilians?
Would you shoot a civilian in real?
You people fail in pr.
In fact you are embarasing it.

Shooting the civilians doesn't exactly help you.
They are not even a threat to you.

The idea of just killing them is making me sick.
I can not belive we have people thinking that way.
Devs have to do something about this.

Either take out the class or make bigger penalties.
In my opinion the one who shoots the civi should die auto and be taken to court(death).
And also get a 2 min spawn.


I sugest all of you who shoot the civilian on sight.
Go have a good look in the manual.
Most of the bad players never even looked into it because they think they know everything.

Like pay atention to the tips on the loading screen they are not there for your amusement.
They are there to teach you something and to provide you with knowladge who will help you make the game fun for both sides.

Shooting the civilians makes it harder for you.
Because you lose intel points.
And don't wonder why you don't see any red dots on your map.
That's probably because your team or you have been shooting civis for no reson.