Project Reality Forums

hi eddie,

did you ever was in military ?? no ?? so i was.. you never will get ammo for taking by your self... nver beleve me! you always have one who gives you the ammo you want. otherwhise one will take 10 magazines and another one takes 10 again and the next one dont have 1 left. thats why always a guy gives you the ammo you really need and not more.

perhaps you can do the uav as reload station with unlimited ammo but also the car has only maximum load of ammo wich only support soldier see how much is in and when he have to reload the car. like only the medic see the health of other soldiers...

this would be great..

Globetrotter,

I am not (as of yet) in the military (2 yrs, RAF), though I did know what I was trying to say. I'm not saying a man dispensing ammo is not real at all, I'm just saying that it is so complicated to change the ammo giving as it is at the moment that for a while it should be taken out until a suitable fix can be found, e.g. Malik's idea.

Eddie

why its complicated ?? at time every one can take ammo everywhere.. from a supply drop from a vehicle and from a UAV trailer and all are asking for ammo because they run out of it. at time the assult soldier has 3 ammo bags.
its not bad like this but this ammo bags can refill mines , missles, and claymors.

if the assult will carrie 3 AT missle he wont carrie a gun any more. or something else.
its much more realistic if a support soldier always sit in a car where his machine gun is and he gives ammo out and all knows where to go if they call for ammo because he is the one on the minimap who always have ammo, because its his job. thats squad tactic and tactic for the whole team.
you just have to know who is making this job.

and he will also shoot many ppl down because he will be a nice target to cut the rest from ammo. but he cant carrie ammo because he has a big fat machine gun, so he have to be next to a car to re ammo the team.

with the medic, plz no defibro... make it more realistic if your mod calls project reality!!

Globetrotter:

Sorry, but you are totally missing my point.
I agree that it is "unrealistic" for a stupid pack of ammo to carry 10 AT missiles, 15 mines and 1500 rounds of 5.56 ammo or whate-have-ya.

The problem I was talking about was not whether the current system is realistic or teamplay-reliant, the problem is that most players on public servers don't bother to supply their team with ammunition or revive them anway. So the point is that you might have 10 medics and 10 assault / support guys with the potential to aid your team, but if 0 of them do it, they are of no use.

Now, the current system is TOTALLY simple.
To give your teammates ammo, hand them out one of your 3 packages.
To revive / heal your teammates, take the defi out and click on them.

If you'd make these things more complicated (ammo can be given only by a soldier sitting next to a car (what ??), medics can only heal next to a car and have to carry bodies, etc.), people would SUPPORT THEIR TEAM EVEN LESS THAN THEY ALREADY ARE

[MOST] People ALREADY don't give out ammo or revive, because they don't care about teamplay and because they are retards, even though supporting your team is SO SIMPLE at the moment.
If you'd make this stuff more complicated EVEN LESS people would support their team and the game would totally break down.

no mustage i dont miss what you wrote. i understand what you are talking about, but you are not in BF2 normal. its a reality MOD and if you dont have friends you are playing with im sorry for you really. but im playing with friends normaly 10 or more of them over teamspeak and we found this mod and it was the one we searched for. its totally this what BF2 need for playing this game with fun and not only stupid fraggin. so i wont listen to you if you are cying about no one heals you or give you ammo. play with friends and all the other public players will see how effective your teamplay works and they will follow from alone. but you has to be the one with your friends who show how it works. dont only cry what other not do, first of all do it self and others will follow.
thats a fakt, and if you ever tell me dont make it complicated then go back and play normal bf2 this mod is called project reality and this it should be "realistic".
i think this conversation is over you agree with me ??

I have about two guys I regularily play with, and we usually open a squad where we utilize a lot of teamwork and play classes according to what the current situation needs, but really, one effective squad of 2 or 3 guys don't make that much of a difference in a 64 player game. Or even a 32 player game, if the rest of the team plays as lone-scouts and doesn't bother to pay attention to the AAS system or the commander or whatever at all.

It's nice that you have a group of 10 people which you can enjoy playing with, and which will utilize teamplay and all, but that's not a reason to make the game virtually unplayable for your casual, average gamer (who doesn't have a PRMM clan) and who wants to enjoy some teamplay on a public server.

I also doubt that this is in the developers interest, because the casual gamers will be put off by complicated game mechanics (like I said, people don't even "get" how the use the current, simple mechanics, and don't even get me started about AAS) and the mod will become so unpopular, you won't find a lot of servers for it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a community of VERY dedicated players who enjoy teamwork and who wouldn't have a problem with very realistic game mechanics, heck, I'd enjoy them too, but the majority of the casual, average gamers out there don't, and it's already hard to find a server with people playing this mod these days as it is.

What I propose is to improve this mod towards realism whilst, by using the overall gameplay, to encourage people to more teamwork. Making tasks like healing your comrades or supplying ammo more complicated or harder or forcing the player to expose himself more and therefore increasing his chance of dying won't accomplish this.

It's nice that you can enjoy this mod with your group of intelligent teamworking players, but me, I have to join a server and rely on people which I've never played before with to heal me, give me ammo, support me, etc.

While I do this a lot and encourage other people to do this, it doesn't seem to have an effect on most people and I'll be left dying (surrounded by medics) or without ammo all the time.
It's not fun to play like that, and I'm sure you will agree that we have to get the players of this mod to utilize teamplay - but "overcomplicating" the mechanics (and in my opinion this is what your ideas are doing, as realistic as they may be) won't get this done.

Have fun with your mod in a year or so when you have 2 or 3 servers, worldwide, because most people are too tired of bothering with how to figure out what to do at all to help their team or to even play the game.

Standing next to a vehicle to give out ammunition sounds totally counter-intuitive, and not a lot of people will find out about this function unless they read the instructions / readme, and how many people who want to try out a new mod will bother to do that ?
People will get bored by this complicated stuff soon and the average players (which, unfortunately are the majority of people playing these games) will run off the mod.
Again, you will be left with a very dedicated community, but it will be so small you're going to have trouble to find people playing at all.

I can see this mod going in an interesting direction with regards to realism and all, but unfortunately, most of the time, this road leads down to leave the mod with about 2 or 3 servers playing it, worldwide, if at all, and eventually dying, like so many mods that had a lot of potential before this one.

There is a reason why Counterstrike is so popular - it hase simple, intuitive game dynamics and people can get into it very quickly - that's why you won't have a problem finding 10 or more CS servers in your immediate proximity, any given day, any given week.
If certain tasks in the game are too counter-intuitive or complicated, people will run off of that game before they have a chance to play it, and the mod will eventually become unpopular, servers will remain empty and eventually shut down.

No offence, I'd like a REALLY realistic mod and I'm sure your ideas would make for fun gameplay, but what good is that gameplay if you won't find a server or people playing it because they never got the chance to enjoy the game for it's high learning curve ?
This is especially a problem with modifications of popular games.
I've seen SO many good mods for HL go down the road because, while trying to aim for realistic gameplay, were SO complicated and un-intuitive to play that nobody would bother to get into the game.

I just don't want this to happen to this mod, because it deserves better.
So we all should work together to strive for a good improvement of vBF2 towards realism, whilst still making the game enjoyable to those players who actually come from vBF2 and who expect similar, even though slightly more realistic gameplay.

ok last try to tell. this is a MOD not a totally new game. the modder i think starts to mod because them are interessted to make bf2 as realistic as it can be, thats why they called reality project. such a mod will ever find his fans as complicatet it is. and ppl arent stupid they will learn fast if they are interessted. and sorry i dont wanna play with ppl who dont wanna learn. so i think this mod should be what it called about if you dont like it complikated you have to search another mod where is like normal BF2 and make it more easier to play.

I never said I wouldn't like it complicated.
I think it would be quite challenging to have to mod be as close as real life as possible, while still being a fun game.

My point is, this mod is relying so much on teamplay, no matter how hard I try, I will still get fucked royally if my team is too incompetent or won't bother to help me.
Hence, we should be careful on what features we implement in order to keep the average gamer interested in playing, and even moreso, in supporting his team.

A 100% realistic mod, as fun as it might be to play with the proper people, won't help me shit if I can't find people to play with me.

EDIT:
Just disregard me.
I won't bother posting in this thread anymore.
I have made my points as clear as I could.

In the end, it's the choice of the developers which features to implement, and, more importantly, HOW to implement them.
I realize this mod is still under development and will undergo many changes in the future.

I just hope that in one or two years from now on, the mod won't have gone down the drain like so many great mods with a lot of potential before this one, due to slobby, unintuitive game mechanics and people being scared off by them.
It would be a shame to see this mod be played by about 50 people worldwide with only 1 or two servers online - that's what happens to most mods who "try too hard" to accomplish a certain goal (in this case, as much realism as possible) whilst sacrificing overall playability.
We'll see how this mod develops and I have done all I can to support the developers with my ideas and my conceptions of what to do and what not to do, in order to improve the mod for most players.

It's up to them which choices they make, I wish them luck and will try my best to enjoy this mod (I do that very much already), but it would be a shame to see this ship sinking because most players just can't get into it.

uh .. btw y'all don't need to argue about soemthing that's not possible with the engine (or not possible without gargantuan effort and possible access to the source code).

we have already tried something like this... it would be relatively easy to make the object that represents the ammo kit look like a magazine, it would be a significant amount of work to re-do all the animations to toss mags (we'd just use a modified version of the C4 toss) which would then just behave like ammo kits do now, the player would have to pick them up.

And you'd have to assign different magazines to different players, so some guys could carry ammo for the 249, some for the M4 (and equivalent ammo changes for the other factions).

There does not appear to be a way to make ammo types definitions in BF2 (although there was in BF42).

So uh... it's a huge amount of effort to basically change the object that represents the ammo kit, because the behavioural changes alluded to are simply not possible.

I read the post... just encouraging y'all to argue constructively about soemthing we *can* do, cuz this is an example of something we can't do.

For those of you who want to get into BF2 modding... roll up yer sleeves and get in there heh. I had no clue about this 6 months ago (still don't). If you can read and operate notepad you can mod BF2.

egg

Thanks for stepping in Eggman. Also guys lets try to keep this constructive. Globetrotter grammar and spelling are your friends.

sorry about my grammar and spelling im swiss and my english isnt taht good i know that but im learning by doing.
i see what you done and im imperessed what is possible.

my question was not if its possible to make different ammos if you really read this thread you will see im asking for re ammo by a car but only if a support is in his near.

and im asked for a damage model where you can slow down troops or vehicles if they have damge.

and sorry again for spaming this forum a bit.im new in this mod and i only want to know what is possible.

also i only answered on his post. he get me in this conversation about reality or easy way to play on public server.

and yes i started to mod a bit but i only had 3 days to learn about. i will learn more in future because im very interessted.

hope you understand now why im posting that much

regards globetrotter

Globetrotter wrote: and im asked for a damage model where you can slow down troops or vehicles if they have damge.

working on someting like this, but not sure if it's possible... it's kinda limited in BF2, but I thought of a hack that's promising.

egg

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']working on someting like this, but not sure if it's possible... it's kinda limited in BF2, but I thought of a hack that's promising.

egg

Can you make it so severly wounded soldiers cannot stand up like what is done in OFP?

It really sucks when you're stuck crawling everywhere, but when you're the shooter you see that you've accomplished something. If you make it to where he's slow or something those effects don't transfer well [visibly] to the guy who fired the crippling shot. Ohh and isn't it time blood effects are added?

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']working on someting like this, but not sure if it's possible... it's kinda limited in BF2, but I thought of a hack that's promising.

egg

Move or don't move untill repaired past point Z for armor would be very nice.

'[R-DEV wrote:MasterTom']at this point...
my official opinion is: 'can NOT be done'...

I see there are lots of limitations in modding BF2. How about we keep it simple and make it work like the vBF2 support ressuplying players (only holding his bag, no throwing) but only support ressuply support, assault ressuply assault, sniper resupply sniper, etc. and the supplyed ammo substracts from the giver?

Is that possible? Devs?

Wouldn't be realistic would be the concern rather than a coding question I would say

Wouldn't be realistic? What are you talking about?

It's better than having assault suplying everyone with everything, dont you think?

When in active combat it is each man's responsibility to ensure he is fully equiped. Yes, he may grab a mag from someone here and a nade from someone else, but to be honest, if you have run out of mags you are damn stupid and would never be on a battle field. I always worked on a 2 mag system, one in weapon and one full mag on your body. THat way if you are forced into an engagement you have enough ammunition to keep yourself alive. However, your objective would be to get ammunition from a source (vehicle etc) ASAP.

Also your point is off because you have not considered cross-weapon compatability of ammunition. Several USMC guns of the present (and future) in PR will take the same ammuntion etc.

So you are saying the ammo bags the assault currently throw should be removed? I agree with that, always wanted it.

I know several guns take the same ammunition, that was the initial idea on this thread but was rejected by the devs because would be impossible to code. Now what I'm proposing is a simpler (while not ideal) solution to the current unrealistic assault bags...

It always comes down to being able to code it.

I'd like to be able to share magazines - perhaps set mags as a seperate weapon item and you can drop them etc - I don't know.

Essentially a coding DEV needs to say what we can do and can't do