Project Reality Forums

First of all, nearly every (if not every) U.S. Infantryman wears a body armor capable of at leasting completely stopping a few MP5 or other SMG rounds (9x19mm). If the Dev's actually modeled the MP5 with accurate recoil on full auto and dropped the damage for the first few rounds against US inf down, why would any MEC person want a SMG instead of the 2-shot kill G3/HK21?

as of right now I would kinda like a HK-53 or HK-93 but that aint going to happen. And as for those saying the SMG's would be "1337" have you seen the PPSH? That poor lil bugger is a paper weight unless your DANG close.

PPSh RULES

Though Hobo is pretty much correct. Pistol rounds are fail. BRING ON THE P90!

M.

Expendable Grunt wrote:PPSh RULES

Though Hobo is pretty much correct. Pistol rounds are fail. BRING ON THE P90!

M.

P90 will never be used because the ammo is expensive and you're better off carrying an AKS-74U, which I believe is issued to Russian tank crews, and I wouldn't be surprised to see MECs toting one.

The Ar-15's and L85's are not as powerful as the G3 series. Therefore it is balanced if one is better at long range (G3) and the other better in close range (AR-15, L85)..

If u want to make a MEC CQC squad then get crewman kits.. They absolutely own is CQC

Hunt3r wrote:P90 will never be used because the ammo is expensive and you're better off carrying an AKS-74U, which I believe is issued to Russian tank crews, and I wouldn't be surprised to see MECs toting one.

Jokes, you do not get them.

M.

i dnt like this because it would mean even more rape, i mean, crewmen on Asad kahl already sprint around like Usain bolt on E with a floppy Hat and an mp5, on a mad killing rampage, this would only justify that becasue rather than them being crewmen and only having smoke, it would be a regular inf kit. besides, its just about knowing how to use it effectively, not making a whole new class for one army just because some people cant control the 7.62

this is nice,

maybe make it a SMG kit for ALL Teams, has it have a good firepower in CQC.

but USMC marines also have some MP5 guns, so. maybe the will also have a SMG kit.

maybe it could be a Secundary chose of Riflemen auxiliar?

or evem a trirt choose of Riflemen has Well Squad leader.

SMG kits main be limited. since people in army main use Assault rifles.

charliegrs wrote:imo this just sounds like people are trying to get the special forces class back.

Seconded.
I hear and read enough of stories where people already make insane killing sprees with the MEC crewmen kits, I can only imagine the disaster of the l33t3rs getting their hands on them SMG's as a regular kit.

All the best,
Viki

You do forget that the chechens, who are fighting a conventional army, already use an SMG as a primary weapon for one of their kits. Which is fun, I'm not denying that.
The reason I support this is mainly variety in equipment, not realism. But I don't think realism would suffer, as like I said, there already is an SMG in use against conventional body armour in game.

Spec_Operator wrote:You do forget that the chechens, who are fighting a conventional army, already use an SMG as a primary weapon for one of their kits. Which is fun, I'm not denying that.
The reason I support this is mainly variety in equipment, not realism. But I don't think realism would suffer, as like I said, there already is an SMG in use against conventional body armour in game.

Right, but the Chechens are not a conventional force -- the MEC is.

Really when it comes down to it, we can't accurately portray the 9x19 cartridge in-game.
In reality, an ACH or LWH is capable of taking several 9mm rounds without it's user sustaining lethal injury. Do helmets afford any protection in-game? No. The IOTV and MTV are also capable of stopping 9x19. In-game, it takes what.. 4 shots in the chest to drop a player that has 'heavy armor'?

In fantasy dream land, pistols and normal SMGs would only cause minor damage to a player when struck in the helmet or body armor, but would still suffer from the other wounding effects (blurry vision, slow movement, etc.), while shots to the face, underarm, or extremities would yield significant damage.

I think the fact that we do see MEC players requesting the Crewman kit points not to a problem with the G3, but a problem with the MP5.

-REad

I agree that the damage against body armour might be too high. I think it's 5 rounds in the chest, could be increased to 7 or so I think, and I see your point.

I'd keep the head damage for pistol rounds though. The fact that one can be revived should be accurate enough to simulate the fact that the helmet might stop the bullet, but the soldier would still suffer from the energy of the impact. And keep arm/leg damage the same.

I guess you have a point, but I would not make pistol rounds completely useless as they still are used in real life, be it as sidearms.

I'd limit the crewman kit to the number of vehicles and/or reduce the number of magazines for it to counter misuse.

I'd still find a SMG kit for the MEC nice, but if it shall not be, the abuse of the crewman kit should of course be stopped. But please not at the cost of realism, the last thing I'd want to see is pistols with sniper rifle deviation or needing two shots in the face to take someone down as that was by far the most annoying thing of Vanilla.

Spec_Operator wrote:I agree that the damage against body armour might be too high. I think it's 5 rounds in the chest, could be increased to 7 or so I think, and I see your point.

I'd keep the head damage for pistol rounds though. The fact that one can be revived should be accurate enough to simulate the fact that the helmet might stop the bullet, but the soldier would still suffer from the energy of the impact. And keep arm/leg damage the same.

Agree with this .

Stu.

I can only cry that some of you want it nerfed or replaced.

I've only used it a handful of times.

I like it the way it is and this thread has reminded me that I should use it if my MEC squad already has a good fighting variety of equipment.

HAAN4 wrote:this is nice,

maybe make it a SMG kit for ALL Teams, has it have a good firepower in CQC.

FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST NOOOOOOOO. Only for the MEC because they are A: a made up faction B: it would add a little flavor to the team.



And really this would only be able to be gotten of a crate which in turn would make it uber rare

PDW's aren't issued to regular army troops.. like most of the SMG suggestions out there.

I'd like to see the MEC rifleman specialist equipped with an MP5 and given an appropriate name change, or at least have the MP5 as a limited kit of some sort as already suggested.

This discussion, has reminded me of the many pictures I've seen of British Army troops armed with the L2A3 Sterling 9mm SMG in the Falklands and Northern Ireland (Imperial stormtroopers in the Star Wars movies also used them ), back when our main service rifle was the L1A1 7.62x51mm SLR (FN FAL copy for those who don't know.)

I'm not entirely sure how often these were issued to squads on the front line, but in CQB it seems like it would've made sense with no 5.56mm weapons around at that time. Of course, I'd expect each squad only ever saw one of two of them at a time, if this was indeed the case. Anyone have any more information about it's life in the British Army?

Thinking about it, it was a very similar set up to what we had during WWII as well. The L1A1 SLR replaced the Lee-Enfield No.4 .303 (similar caliber to 7.62x51mm) and the L2A3 Sterling replaced the Sten 9mm SMG. Who's to say a modern army using a 7.62x51mm rifle wouldn't adopt a similar approach?

Terry Tibbs wrote: This discussion, has reminded me of the many pictures I've seen of British Army troops armed with the L2A3 Sterling 9mm SMG in the Falklands and Northern Ireland (Imperial stormtroopers in the Star Wars movies also used them ), back when our main service rifle was the L1A1 7.62x51mm SLR (FN FAL copy for those who don't know.)

Good point. Armies that have deployed heavy battle rifles like the G3 and FAL have also used SMGs alongside those. Examples, except for the British, that I come to think of are the Swedes (who sed the M/45 "Swedish K" alongside their G3s) and the Israelis (Uzis and FALs).

A rifle like the G3 is a long and heavy thing, not the kind of weapon you would like to carry around if you are a medic, engineer or something similar. I can imagine that carrying both a G3A3 and Saiga-12 (not to mention a big grappling hook) would be very cumbersome for the MEC "specialist rifleman". Same cn be said about the engineer, who carries AT-mines and C4.

In my opinion, the Specialist Rifleman and Engineers should be given MP5s. At the same time, nerf the MP5 slightly so that the MEC don't get to much of an advantage.

I'd like to see the MEC rifleman specialist equipped with an MP5 and given an appropriate name change, or at least have the MP5 as a limited kit of some sort as already suggested.

This discussion, has reminded me of the many pictures I've seen of British Army troops armed with the L2A3 Sterling 9mm SMG in the Falklands and Northern Ireland (Imperial stormtroopers in the Star Wars movies also used them ), back when our main service rifle was the L1A1 7.62x51mm SLR (FN FAL copy for those who don't know.)

I'm not entirely sure how often these were issued to squads on the front line, but in CQB it seems like it would've made sense with no 5.56mm weapons around at that time. Of course, I'd expect each squad only ever saw one of two of them at a time, if this was indeed the case. Anyone have any more information about it's life in the British Army?

Thinking about it, it was a very similar set up to what we had during WWII as well. The L1A1 SLR replaced the Lee-Enfield No.4 .303 (similar caliber to 7.62x51mm) and the L2A3 Sterling replaced the Sten 9mm SMG. Who's to say a modern army using a 7.62x51mm rifle wouldn't adopt a similar approach?

You miss 1 part: L1A1 is SLR - FN FAL without selective fire option, while G3A3 is selective-fire battle rifle. Hence, no need for SMG.

p/s I would choose MC51 if you ask me. More reasonable imo. Same mags, same ammo as G3's, size of MP5.

And horribly unreliable and uncontrollable. The MC-51 was also highly specialised and rare, having had only 50 weapons in the original production run, all of which were bought by british SF (allegedly). A few years ago Imperial Defence Services offered the weapon again from a new manufactuer, but its no longer listed in thier literature.

While incredbily cool in concept the MC-51 is a practically unuseable weapon due to excessive recoil, muzzle flair and reliability problems caused by the shortened action.

MC51