The civilians/colaborators need a total re-work

[McBumLuv]

BlackMagic, I disagree on your last point. The UAV can help the commander find area of activity, but it does not allow him/her to spot the cache at all.

[BlackMagikz]

usually areas of activity equals chache , its not bad idea to stick around and defend it , but people are stupid enough to fire out of it and not give a low profile. Once area of activity is spotted the marker generally marks out the location

EDIT i'm not saying UAV should be removed , noo far from that...... , but a good penalty inhabiting the murderer would be good ( which is my point )

[Rissien]

BlackMagic, I disagree on your last point. The UAV can help the commander find area of activity, but it does not allow him/her to spot the cache at all.

Actually we had one round on Bashra where our commander spotted the exact location of four caches with his UAV.

[BlackMagikz]

see^^^^

[Tirak]

H[=ElvishKnight;1159356']Actually we had one round on Bashra where our commander spotted the exact location of four caches with his UAV.

Yes... his "UAV".

[snooggums]

But that defeats the purpose of even trying to work with a squad if you just get punished for it...like the current system of punishing for healing

You have to read my suggestion first to see how I would address it.

The Devs have changed the civilian into a collaborator, my suggestion is to make the collaborator a non-armed combatant supporter and the civilian would be a loner who simply spots enemy movement while staying away from the rest of the insurgents. The collaborator would still work with the insurgents but would need to avoid combat and would look like a civi so he would likely be left alone if he is seen by himself.

The proximity being added to a single collaborator class (without civilian) would also work because the collaborator would only be punished when caught while working with friendlies (he should stay out of sight while with them in combat) or could scout ahead and the enemy would be punished for shooting him while alone. This would get rid of human shield issues while still allowing the collaborator known to be collaborating with the enemy (by hanging around with them) to be a valid ROE and not valid while alone. It does all the things the devs want with the class without any complex action based ROE like we have now.

I also suggest a much reduced spawn time for the collaborator to go along with the changes since he can't be used as a human shield which is the justification for the long spawn time now. If he is away from friendlies he can either be arrested or ignored easily and won't be able to jump into a line of fire.

[Celestial1]

BlackMagic, I disagree on your last point. The UAV can help the commander find area of activity, but it does not allow him/her to spot the cache at all.

I have firsthand spotted a number of caches, mostly notably in the open fields of Basrah. There is also at least one cache that spawns on the top of a building, that being the one East of the torn down building at the SE end of Basrah. If it still spawns there, it must be possible to spot it from the UAV.

The visibilities of the cache from the UAV is magnified due to texture flickering at that height, and the caches appear as almost a stark black square, and flickers as if it were a signal 'I'm here!'. (All graphics on high.)


On topic, I think that this is a pretty decent solution for a single-class civi/collab.

[illidur]

1 other idea i have, is to make it so if the bluefor gets punished the civ has a normal spawn time. why do the civs still have long spawn time? they didn't do anything for a minute get shot and then have to wait longer than they did to give the enemy the penalty.... and also why not make it so the civ is a limited kit just like the medic? thats another way to stop civi abuse if thats what ur afraid of with spawn times.

[TheLean]

1 other idea i have, is to make it so if the bluefor gets punished the civ has a normal spawn time. why do the civs still have long spawn time? they didn't do anything for a minute get shot and then have to wait longer than they did to give the enemy the penalty.... and also why not make it so the civ is a limited kit just like the medic? thats another way to stop civi abuse if thats what ur afraid of with spawn times.

Great idea, if there is only a few collaborators on the entire insurgent team, they will get alot of flak from their teammates if they try to get killed instead of helping the team with healing and scouting. Another requirement could be to restrict the collaborator kit to squads with many members.

[Himalde]

How about.

If the civilian is killed with in 30 meters of a shooting enemy he will get a loooooong spawn time and no punishment for the Bluefor (civilians run away from the combat, not into it). If he is arrested he'll get a long spawn time. If he is shot illegally he'll get a short spawn time.

[goguapsy]

give give give!

I also liked that other guy's idea of giving the next 5 insurgents to spawn a decreased spawn time to simulate the anger of the locals.

nice... +1

[scope]

H[=ElvishKnight;1159141']Insurgent Scout kits, Rifleman Specialist kits....

Sorry, guess i should have clerified. I would like to see an insurgent kit with a hook and a weapon. Thought that was obvious given the context of the thread. I always forget to write my post for the lowest common denominator.

[Claymore]

I have to say I'm against the "insurgent shooting nearby" rule. In Lebanon, Insurgents were shooting IDF from one side of the road while civillians were watching from the other. Does this give the IDF right to kill all those civillians? When somebody fires from SVD on the US troops in Iraq, does that mean all people around are insurgents as well? No, this question was answered in Haditha already.

There are many conditions that remove penalty for killing a civillian and people most often don't care and shoot them anyway...
You might want to give the shotgun guy a hook though... (he won't be able to solo snipe from rooftops with a shotgun so teamwork should be preserved.)

[Adetter]

And,i use to shoot civillians thats annoying in the leg or some,so they just getting injured,because,when they got so much hurt,that screen is white/red........They cant see where they run,then i come and finish em with the punch.

[Wh33lman]

I thinki have an idea on how to make the Civilian a little more benificial. throw some tickets into the mix in insurgency. make it more like AAS, when insurgents die, the team loses tickets. perhaps not one ticket per death, but maybe 1 ticket for every 20 insurgents. the insurgents will want a medic to keep their guys alive, but going after caches will still be the quickest way for the BLUFOR to win.

[illidur]

Great idea, if there is only a few collaborators on the entire insurgent team, they will get alot of flak from their teammates if they try to get killed instead of helping the team with healing and scouting. Another requirement could be to restrict the collaborator kit to squads with many members.

yup thats the idea. you could try to make it so the enemy's intel goes down. but it would be very slowly anyways cus you have to wait 60 seconds after each spawn. even i shoot collabs right now on sight. and i hardly ever get punished. its so worth it to just shoot right now.

if they could really fix the collaborators so that nobody just shoots. they could add a collab with a c4 strapped to him. but make it so he is slightly noticeable somehow. in order to detonate the c4 you have to have your hands up for awhile. so you cant just run in and blow up. that would be a funny kit. but before we get more + to shoot them, we need more -.

since when did civis have hooks? i agree with the shotgun class having grapple.

[rampo]

4) I'll give an e-cookie for everyone who shares the same opinion

Agree whit everything, it sucks to bee civilian now and i would realy love to see people play whit the kit more. Can i has e-cookie nao?

[Heikkine]

Overal ideas that i got. Take what you like

Give the insurgents reduced spawntime on Assets mortars or overal team spawntime.

Civies got 30 sec spawn time when getting killed on start. and the time that will rise up 1 min per death But the min spawn time (on every death) goes away after waiting like 10min or so. so if the guy jumps infront up bullets he'll have to wait 1.30 ( 90sec) , after two jumps 2.30. after 5 its 5.30 unless you wait 10/15 minutes of the first time you get shot, making it "only" 4.30. max of something like 10min so the tard who jumps into bullets has to leave and join back..
Giving reason to stay alive and not die all the time. but ofcourse people will just change the civie who gets killed. making the effort almost pointless. *waits for someone to solve the equation* (change the start time to 1.5(min)

punish the damned bugger who shot the civie!
2 min spawntime! a little info on the side that you murdered someone.
special kit restriction for 10 min
intel loss and a headache- feeling: making the guy see blurry overall (just a little), ghosts (like this little civie icon that comes up to the screen) and stuff

Give the rope to someone else and leave the civie with only medic-bag, phone, unarmed, binocs, patches, rocks and a "cry song" he can sing to when close to bluefor for fun identifying.

[Gore]

Let the civi keep the hook as the only one. More ways to have people depending on his help.

[drs79]

I have heard convo's regarding all insurgents spawning as civilians and thus going to caches to request/obtain officer kits which I think is a neat little thing.

I do feel the penalty for shooting a civilian should be greater than loss of cache info, as I have posted before having the blufor side lose a ticket for every civilian killed would right away solve the problem.

Also maybe just having the civilian be a civilian, take away the medic bag/epipen, and only equip him with a hook, rock, cellphone, shovel, and 5-10 patches.

This would help alleviate the penalty that is given to the civilian when he heals/revives downed insurgents.

Now if the civilian picks up a insurgent attack kit, he's fair game.

Also the spawn time for the civilian as others have posted should be brought down a bunch.

Maybe have a medic bag (ak47, patches, medic bag/epipen and one/two Molotov's) be available at caches as a kit which pops up.

Or have the civilian kit be a specialty kit.

Or maybe even take away the civilian kit altogether, until it is fine tuned.