Project Reality Forums

mat552 has it right.

The reason people dislike certain maps are usually the repetitive gameplay or problems from the change in versions.

I used to love Sunset City, Kyong Ni and the river map with the castle that originally had to castle flags. All three maps are pretty meh now because of changes to vehicle and flag layouts, and only the river map with the castle uses the whole map. The real problem with Kyong Ni and Sunset City currently is their single flag with NO BLEED. There is no objective to the map other than kill the enemy.

Remember people, 1km are not automatically small as Korengal Valley is a 1km map. Terrain plays a big role and the terrain differences between Korengal valley and Kyong Ni are miles apart due to the progression of the mod. That doesn't mean Kyong Ni wasn't a great map when it started, it was awesome, but it no longer fits the changes in gameplay (longer effective ranges, no more choppers, etc).

Maps like Qwai have been around long enough people miss their old toys and don't find the map fun anymore. I enjoy it sometimes but the random flags combined with the single land bridge and inability to repair the other two bridges makes playing the US either really easy or really frustrating due to not having any amphibious vehicles and their only mobile APC counter being land based. Having a two hour stalemate because the TOW can't cross the river is boring.

Kashan was fun when it can out but the flag layout means the game will play the same way 90% of the time: infantry fighting in the bunkers while the assets roam around outside, no other flags matter, and if they do they are a simply bump in the road to capping out main. Quinling is too spread out with the rolling hills and only APCs for transport to have infantry matter because their rides die so easy. The Problem with Kolszek from a game play point of view is that there are a few flags that vehicles can't reach so the combined arms aspect doesn't work for certain flag layouts. I like random AAS, but sometimes it doesn't work.

Maps that currently have enjoyable replay value for me are Fool's Road (enough forest for infantry to matter, enough assets to really do combined arms), Korengal Valley due to the terrain and visuals, Ramiel due to the large amount of city, Archer (even though Taliban always win unless artillery kills caches), Muttrah due to lots of infantry areas an streets for vehicles and Jabal which has held up well to version changes.

Some other maps can be fun or not (Al Basrah for example) depending on teams. One major improvement to certain maps like Kolszek that are assault oriented would be the delayed bleed effect that would push an attacking army into actually attacking instead of winning by holding a single flag. Most game modes just don't play to the way the mode is supposed to work and ends up in a stalemate and comes down to kills instead of objectives. The maps I noted as having good replay will be won by objectives as much as kills in my experience, or at the least have a chance to do so.

yes more Kozelsk, but its basically down to the fact that their are so many servers now, their is just too much competition to keep your server full.

Lack of variation in map layers, ie, this is what we want you to play and you will play it, end.

Rather than 64 = vehicle/combined arms heavy layer, 32 = medium layer (similar to the current layers) and 16 = infantry style layers, and then well informed admins.

Then servers can chose to have a more unique gameplay choice that suits each persons playing preferences, so you don´t have a map switching from qwai to kashan or quinling to bi ming and everyone leaves because there is a huge difference between them.

Personally, due to current infantry mechanics (lets not go there) I will only consider playing something with vehicles on it. Other people are the other way round. When a server goes from muttrah to asad khal, there is a huge confict of interest and likely the server will empty a bit.

I support kashan/qinling 24/7 and mech inf 24/7 servers for example, then you don´t join and have a random selection of maps that will greatly impact server population.

The 24/7 kashan/qinling and muttrah servers were full alot of the time...

And this.

Another factor is the cutting down of maps. When Sunset City (examples, yay) came onto the scene, it was (as best I can recall) from the school of asymmetrical design, much like Qwai was. As the versions past, the assets were chipped away (whether one fell blow or multiple trimmings I don't recall) and the result is the map we now call Sunset City. A couple logi trucks and jeeps from a map that originally had choppers and tanks.

I'm not saying the mappers/devs were wrong to cut out all the assets from Sunset, but I am saying they need to think hard about changing one of the primary design ideas of a map. It was conceptualized as a combined arms asymmetrically balanced map. And it was. Then it became a symmetrically balanced infantry match. And fell from popularity a short time after that.

I bet if sunset and others got some fun actually put into them rather than just another map with a couple of jeeps if that then they would be played alot more.

One point snooggums touched on that I wanted to as well.

Random AAS does a really poor job of "random". On qwai, almost 5 out of 7 games I've played have had two flags on the Chinese side of the river, and the other flag is either Mine or Processing. This means the US are usually forced to spread themselves very thin, and if they do make a breakthrough and get a foothold on the Chinese side, they are still at less of an advantage when it comes to reinforcing their attack/defense, lacking any amphibious units at all. The Chinese on the other hand both spawn within a few minutes walking distance of two of their objectives.

Random AAS in general is a very good concept, there just needs to be enough testing done to make sure that it's very close to a 50/50 split on who gets the advantage on a map in terms of flag layout, because in any map that isn't perfectly flat and the bases aren't equidistant from each flag, it does grant a significant advantage to the team who's main is closer to the majority of their objectives.

so i guess what everyone is saying on the infantry maps like sunset/kyongang/7gates,,, these were popular maps until the apc's got the boot ,, im going to have to agree,, devs take note, WE WANT THE APCS BACK,, and for ejod this is my opinion cuz its my fav map,,, put on more flags because there are lots of assets and the map is usually over in 15-20 mins with one side always getting pummelled

also, what is the point of all the vehicles people have put so much time into making and then only putting them on 1 or 2 maps ? the lynx isnt even on any maps anymore and lots of people adored that chopper

Scared_420 wrote:also, what is the point of all the vehicles people have put so much time into making and then only putting them on 1 or 2 maps ? the lynx isnt even on any maps anymore and lots of people adored that chopper

Appearantly most people in PR like infantry combat most.
Which I think is dumb because it's supposed to be reality, and in real war, there are many vehicles fighting alongside the infantry.
The vehicles are, IMO, the best part of PR.

If there were suddenly no more maps with vehicles for some reason, I would stop playing.
And other people would play even more if that happened.

Oh well, to each his own..

I absolutely HATE muttrah and i don't understand what is great about it. Although everytime i open the browser i see at least 2 servers with it on. That map is deathly boring, anytime i have played it seems USA sits on the carrier and plays with smoke grenades while the tickets slowly die out.

I personally love kashan, fools road, basrah, and archer.

boilerrat wrote:I absolutely HATE muttrah and i don't understand what is great about it. Although everytime i open the browser i see at least 2 servers with it on. That map is deathly boring, anytime i have played it seems USA sits on the carrier and plays with smoke grenades while the tickets slowly die out.

If you experience that on Muttrah each time I suggest you try playing on anouther server where players are also in mumble etc and you may find it plays better when you have a good team but I do agree with Muttrah being overplayed.

It is worrying that some servers play the same maps over and over again. I always try to play a different map every time I log on (Kozelsk, Al Basrah etc...if the servers are not full).

I bet the reason why forest maps are hated is becaue none of them contain l33t toys like the desert ones do (Cobra on muttrah, A10 on kashan, ...)

Kozelsk used to be popular after 0.85 release with the massive T90 rape, you'd see tank squads with 30-50 kills, I thought back then the map would turn out like Kashan where everyone keeps coming back for the toys, but guess not.

[R-CON]Outlawz wrote:I bet the reason why forest maps are hated is becaue none of them contain l33t toys like the desert ones do (Cobra on muttrah, A10 on kashan, ...)

Kozelsk used to be popular after 0.85 release with the massive T90 rape, you'd see tank squads with 30-50 kills, I thought back then the map would turn out like Kashan where everyone keeps coming back for the toys, but guess not.

Qinling also has all the toys but people dont play a map just for the toys alone.

Indeed Rhino, there's something else that seems to be wrong with Qinling, it has the size, layout, view distance and the toys, yet everyone disconnects when a server loads it...

[R-CON]Outlawz wrote:Indeed Rhino, there's something else that seems to be wrong with Qinling, it has the size, layout, view distance and the toys, yet everyone disconnects when a server loads it...

I like Quinling

Its similar to Kashan (with its big mapsize and the vehiclelayout), but with the fact that u can better hide ur vehicles then in Kashan.
Also the jets can "dive" behind the next hill, unless they get locked by an aa.

Thats the best part.

But infantry has a big advantage too: If u were spotted by an superior enemy, you can hide in a bush next to you or you can run behind the next hill...

In contrast to kashan, u mostly have a lil chance to get away from it. Because in the wide desert u can t escape easily.

Part of Quinling's issues stem from the assets actually. The jets are barely maneuverable inside the 4km and they are a horrific ******* to land. We get all these transport helos, but people only want firebases when they can put them on hills and inside of trees, making supply drops and landings just as hard and dangerous as landing a jet. No one ever takes the Chinese .50 APCs, there is literally no point, as they are like slightly uparmored Nanjings in terms of survivability and ability to protect their cargo. Lastly, but one of the worst bits are how little power the tanks have in terms of climbing terrain. They are forced to take known routes up/down hills to objectives and that just makes them sitting ducks.

So people don't play the 64 layer.

They play the 32 layer. And then it's just an infantry slugfest with a LOT of walking and the occasional run in with an APC. That in turn leads to the realization that the map is really open without much cover for the infantry, at the same time it's frustratingly dense and you can't get any support because your armor is bogged down behind a cluster of trees and hills.

mat552 wrote:making supply drops and landings just as hard and dangerous as landing a jet.

1. So why are SL building fobs on hilltops ?
If they know that it s a bad position for logistics etc and will get discovered easily , why are the doing that ?

2. You don t have to land on such "difficult" area. Just fly about 3 meters over the gorund and people can jump in and out without taking much damgage. Supplydrop aren t a problem too.

3. I agree with u, that the 32layer version is not the best solution for this map.

K4on wrote:2. You don t have to land on such "difficult" area. Just fly about 3 meters over the gorund and people can jump in and out without taking much damgage. Supplydrop aren t a problem too.

Players are, by and large, very resistant to jumping out of a vehicle unless it isn't moving. It's very hard to do a hover drop, even if I'm mere centimeters above the ground. If the chopper slides sideways, or I suddenly have to bug out, I could accidentally maul your whole squad. And most of them would punish me for it. Or I do EVERYTHING perfectly, and then they still bleed out from the tiny fall damage because their medic is off doing whatever, and I still take the punish. (Or the reputation of being a "bad pilot"). There are even people who don't get out of the chopper at all, even if I wait 15 seconds. Then the SL chews my ears off for "not waiting for all my guys"
Supplydrops are much less of a problem, I agree, but dropping troops off on quinling is frustrating.

Edit: As for your first question. I have no idea. I've never been an effective ground SL, so I probably don't understand all the tricks of the trade. It is not mine to question why, I'm just the driver. I do as I'm told.

About the qinling problem, ask yourselves why does kashan get a ton more players? what does kashan have that qinling doesnt? I think it has something to do whit the huge bunker complex in kashan that gives something to fight at for those infantrywhores who wouldnt give a damn about any vehicles. Well qinling does have a village in the middle of the map like kashan but its not really as big as the wast area of bunkers in kashan.

Qinling = doesn´t have a great environment for infantry (though I think its ok) and doesn´t have enough vehicles for vehicles.

I think it would be interesting to see a snow map one day,with all that snow camouflage on soldiers and vehicle's.