Gunner position of attack helos

[terenz]

It all boils down to how youre using the cobra. Like said before, its a really common problem that people dont understand that you have to use hit and run tactics. The problem might be, that the tool that the cobra is, requires more than the public servers can give to be used correctly and sufficiently. I cant be sure, but im confident, that you wont see a cobra hover over such a city packed with HAT and AA stationary guns and kits in real life. Sure its fragile, but a RL cobra wont take a HAT and make it back to the carrier. You dont send in such an expensive weapon, without very precise intel about the dangers to it and the targets. If youre missing that intel on the pub servers, dont use it. These days, the cobra comes down to making it to the docks and getting taken out. Its fragile, but its PAACKED with firepower unlike anything else in the game, question is how you get rid of it without dying rly.

[Hotrod525]

Is there a possible codable fix for that issue, or are we stuck with the evil engine once again?

Actualy the contrast make it WAY EASIER to see anything. You'll see MEC as black spot running, of course you'll also see BTR, AA, FOB, shit like that, but you will also see USMC in the same manner.


In other word, no matter the camo with this, you can seen every one. Same as if somone hide in a building, you will see a dark spot in the window.

It all boils down to how youre using the cobra. Like said before, its a really common problem that people dont understand that you have to use hit and run tactics. The problem might be, that the tool that the cobra is, requires more than the public servers can give to be used correctly and sufficiently. I cant be sure, but im confident, that you wont see a cobra hover over such a city packed with HAT and AA stationary guns and kits in real life. Sure its fragile, but a RL cobra wont take a HAT and make it back to the carrier. You dont send in such an expensive weapon, without very precise intel about the dangers to it and the targets. If youre missing that intel on the pub servers, dont use it. These days, the cobra comes down to making it to the docks and getting taken out. Its fragile, but its PAACKED with firepower unlike anything else in the game, question is how you get rid of it without dying rly.

huh, actualy, you send you're combat chopper along whit you're tank first, followed by Mech Inf. Those baby are made to be the edge of the spear. Combat chopper are made for... combat. Most of them sustain 20mm+ rounds they got Radar detecting every thing at 8kms+ real FLIR device, computerized fire control system... And they arent send 1-by-1. On Desert Storm they perform the first ground attack.

[Alex6714]

True, in general judging by past situations I can see a war developing more or less along the lines of;

Recon by spec ops/uavs etc, destruction of key radar and AA/AT defenses by aircraft and spec ops, ground attack via tanks and CAS, holding of ground via Mech inf.

[Rudd]

The heli could either survive a ton of fire (as has happened in real life situations) or also go down with a couple of lucky ones. Problem is in game that the latter option assuming they would go down in almost nothing has been chosen.

I get the impression that the hitboxes of the choppers need to be looked at

using the apache as an example, doesn't it have a kevlar skirt? so small arms against the bottom half would be not so bad, but small arms against the side and top would be bad bad

the CA FLIR isn't perfect, but its rather cool

problem is that each map treats it differnetly because each map has lighter or darker terrain which doesn't necessarily conform to what temperature it would be, but perhaps we can overcome that with client_server.zips to give tailor made FLIR to each map...but that would be quite alot of work.

[Hotrod525]

I get the impression that the hitboxes of the choppers need to be looked at

using the apache as an example, doesn't it have a kevlar skirt? so small arms against the bottom half would be not so bad, but small arms against the side and top would be bad bad

the CA FLIR isn't perfect, but its rather cool

problem is that each map treats it differnetly because each map has lighter or darker terrain which doesn't necessarily conform to what temperature it would be, but perhaps we can overcome that with client_server.zips to give tailor made FLIR to each map...but that would be quite alot of work.

Small arms ? AH64D sustain 20MM rounds no prob.

[WilsonPL]

any source for that ^ ?

In 2006, an Apache helicopter was reportedly downed by a Soviet-made Strela 2 (SA-7) in Iraq. The Apache is designed to be able to withstand such hits, but this one did not.[26]

[terenz]

Very true hotrod525, I might have been too simpleminded on that. Although when they are the spearhead of such offensives, the enemy might not expect it, where we on Muttrah know, that it will spawn after 20min, some players can even hear it take off from the carrier(I have clan mates with such bugs). On muttrah, the cobra is expected at a certain time, the city is fairly small, its packed with APCs, AA stationaries and kits and HAT kits. With those factors, nothing but hit and run is viable. Its a good point that the optics could be improved even if its virtually impossible in BF2 to reach what we want. I doubt it will change the fact that hovering a cobra over muttrah, is almost certain death.

[Narco]

any source for that ^ ?

The crew compartment and fuel tanks are armored such that the aircraft will remain flyable even after sustaining hits from 23 mm gunfire.

- Wiki

According to Boeing, every part of the helicopter can survive 12.7-mm rounds, and vital engine and rotor components can withstand 23-mm fire.

- HowStuffWorks "Apache Armor"

... Hughes Helicopter (later purchased by McDonnell Douglas) designed a rugged tandem two-seat aircraft with powerful engines, advanced avionics, and armor protection over key portions of the vehicle able to absorb up to 23-mm fire. In addition to an armor-plated cockpit able to withstand 12.7-mm strikes...

- Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - AH-64 Apache

.

[Hunt3r]

It all boils down to how youre using the cobra. Like said before, its a really common problem that people dont understand that you have to use hit and run tactics. The problem might be, that the tool that the cobra is, requires more than the public servers can give to be used correctly and sufficiently. I cant be sure, but im confident, that you wont see a cobra hover over such a city packed with HAT and AA stationary guns and kits in real life. Sure its fragile, but a RL cobra wont take a HAT and make it back to the carrier. You dont send in such an expensive weapon, without very precise intel about the dangers to it and the targets. If youre missing that intel on the pub servers, dont use it. These days, the cobra comes down to making it to the docks and getting taken out. Its fragile, but its PAACKED with firepower unlike anything else in the game, question is how you get rid of it without dying rly.

The problem is that your helicopter does not really have Hellfires. They really just have TOWs. So that means that you end up either needing to fly straight at the target, or you have to hover.

Using AGMs in this game means that you either use extremely dangerous tactics or you get a spotter which doesn't exist, and even if you do, the lase is inaccurate, has an annoying tendency to not appear or bounce off the target you lase. Not to mention, the lase always ends up disappearing as the hellfire flies into it, so you have a fun time having the missile arc straight up as it's about to fly smack into that BTR or BMP. Then the enemy promptly shoots 20 HE rounds smack into the helicopter and it blows up, then it finds you and kills you too.

PR straddles the line where CAS is arcane, but not arcane enough to make you play something else.

[Elektro]

Not to mention, the lase always ends up disappearing as the hellfire flies into it, so you have a fun time having the missile arc straight up as it's about to fly smack into that BTR or BMP.

You have to fly higher, if you are too low the buildings will intercept the lase. Go to around 500 and just drop down with all the hellfires, hydras, and most of all flares...

[Herbiie]

You have to fly higher, if you are too low the buildings will intercept the lase. Go to around 500 and just drop down with all the hellfires, hydras, and most of all flares...

Also remember to fly straight towards your target and smoothly so you're gunner can actually fire.

Real tactic used by Apache pilots is to fly slowly (for an Apache) at the target, so the Gunner has an easier job.

[Alex6714]

Real tactic used by Apache pilots is to fly slowly (for an Apache) at the target, so the Gunner has an easier job.

They can however do this, out of the targets effective range and with camera stabilization and tracking.

[Burton]

They can however do this, out of the targets effective range and with camera stabilization and tracking.

Ditto.

If you fly slow at a target in PR, you're close enough for them to see you and chances are you'll get taken out very quickly with anything ranging from L-AT to MANPADS

[mat552]

As far as Muttrah goes, there is only one gun the MEC use that the Cobra doesn't take damage from, the mp5. Flying slow is not an option. Significant volumes of G3 fire (12+ rifles) can easily bring a cobra to alarm ringing/smoking state in a little less than 15 seconds. Much less than that if there are 2 autorifles. It doesn't matter that it might be how pilots do it in real life, it's suicide in PR.

[myles]

It doesnt just look epic it does help, the light contrast makes it much easier to spot a MEC soldier running in North City without the brown colored camo on the brick walls of the houses

Well thats what we were just saying it helps.

[Hunt3r]

You have to fly higher, if you are too low the buildings will intercept the lase. Go to around 500 and just drop down with all the hellfires, hydras, and most of all flares...

The problem here is that you only need one. Why is our chances of scoring a hit so low? It's a miracle to score a moving hit with Hellfires on LG.

As of now, aircraft in PR are becoming marginalized and it bothers me because as it is, attack helicopters are easily shot down and they cannot utilize realistic tactics to achieve their goals. Hit and run tactics do not allow effective utilization of weapons, and in reality it just limits you to using your rockets and your guns, and in essence, means you cannot deal with any threat greater then infantry or light vehicles without a low chance of surviving at all.

[Bringerof_D]

why not just give the gunner the ability to laser mark targets himself? it would require the pilot to sit relatively still to get an accurate lase, so it wont be too over powering or cause too much lone wolfing. i mean it's available now but the current lase floats around and never goes where you want it to. make it so you have to hold the trigger for a second then the lase locks wherever it ends up that way the pilot has to be still long enough and the gunner has to have steady hands

[Alex6714]

Thats as good as its going to get. Even that could be considered too anti teamwork.

Lase has to fly that slow to have a chance of working, which, being slower than the missile has certain disadvantages.

[rampo]

why not just give the gunner the ability to laser mark targets himself?

But they can? did i get the post correctly? Because a heli gunner can mark lasers for the missiles by himself when on fire&forget mode and clicking the right mouse button

[Narco]

But they can? did i get the post correctly? Because a heli gunner can mark lasers for the missiles by himself when on fire&forget mode and clicking the right mouse button

They can but you've got more chance of hitting yourself than whatever you were trying to laze.