Squadleaders: Rethink your own position please

[Wh33lman]

edit: damn, double post. I thought my first one didnt go through.

[SqnLdr]

Squad leaders need to know what's going on to communicate what he wants the squad to do. That doesn't mean he needs to be at the front - just know how to react to what his squad are telling him.
The decision to or not to revive someone is entirely up to the medic - the medic should value his own life, but do all he can to revive.
Casualty? Pull back to cover, return fire, revive when you can take the ground back. Simple. There's no rush.

[Ghost_1ll1]

@herbiie: like i said, i dont have time to babysit people on how to move across the map. im not there to tutor everyone on gameplay, telling them every 15ft where they are gonna go is tedious and wastes time that could be used to strategize on current info, same goes for marking every step with markers b/c some guy has no idea what he's doing out there. A smarter man than me once said "The more you talk, the less you can listen to your mind."

also to re-iterate, when w/ competent players and or clan members are present i will just say, "take us out to the marker" and have the rifleman lead the charge. otherwise i'll do it myself, and when i come up to a known dangerous street / stretch of highway, i have the scrub rifleman take point AFTER i've gathered intel on the spot using them for the more dangerous impass.

[DaKillerFox]

I often have the very irritating problem that whilst I should stay back to preserve the leadership of the squad, I know for a fact that I will be much better at dealing with the enemy than the other members of my squad. I think in 0.9 I will stay back more and just learn to tolerate failure

Although you are an elite player, one skill all leaders need to acquire is allowing their teammates fail in order to become better. I see this in real life as well, in work and in sports, those who lead fail in leading because they cannot stand to see their teammates fail. But if those people are not given the chance to make mistakes or make decisions on their own, they will never progress or improve. This is one of the hardest things, and sometimes why the best players aren't always the best coaches when it comes to sports, sometimes the best coaches may have not been the best player. As someone who, if in your squad, will undoubtedly fail more than once, I appreciate your patience.

[Herbiie]

im not there to tutor everyone on gameplay, telling them every 15ft

No... but every 250m or so when going a long way, when going a close way just tell them where to go...

Doesn't take long, "Alright guys, we're going round this building, then along the ridge to the marker, got it? GenericPlayerName take point!" simples

They're called QBOs, or Quick Battle Orders, a real life officer must be very good at them, and it's the best way to command.

[DaKillerFox]

Just because it has no scope does int make it shit my favourite gun is the M-16 iron sights its is really good in close range and better than acog and red at medium range on 3 burst i find as it is very acurate. i stiil think it is decent at long range sometimes. You should really try it out more it you think its bad trust me its very good.

I'll have to give a go more. I understand that the lack of a scope is to discourage enemy engagement from the medic, since his primary role is to heal and revive fallen players. And I will agree in CQB or small distances, the iron sights are way better.

[DaKillerFox]

@herbiie: like i said, i dont have time to babysit people on how to move across the map. im not there to tutor everyone on gameplay, telling them every 15ft where they are gonna go is tedious and wastes time that could be used to strategize on current info, same goes for marking every step with markers b/c some guy has no idea what he's doing out there. A smarter man than me once said "The more you talk, the less you can listen to your mind."

also to re-iterate, when w/ competent players and or clan members are present i will just say, "take us out to the marker" and have the rifleman lead the charge. otherwise i'll do it myself, and when i come up to a known dangerous street / stretch of highway, i have the scrub rifleman take point AFTER i've gathered intel on the spot using them for the more dangerous impass.

Well, this is a simple fix, if you find yourself leading a squad of noobies and you don't have the patience to do it, then don't. Imagine for a sec, if your Squad doesn't even know how to walk 15m when you are directing them, what happens the second you go down? I can see it in my head, a bunch of guys running around in circles ducking for cover and looking around wildly trying to see where the tracers are coming from while the enemy slowly creeps up on them and kills them. While you may not care too much, since this is just a game and everyone can respawn again. In real life, you have failed your squad as their squad leader.

[Herbiie]

I'll have to give a go more. I understand that the lack of a scope is to discourage enemy engagement from the medic, since his primary role is to heal and revive fallen players. And I will agree in CQB or small distances, the iron sights are way better.

It works well for popping out and firing a few quick shots to suppress the enemy, though for actually killing the enemy it's not as good.

TBh PR players need to get out of the idea of going for the kill all the time, all you need to do is keep their heads down!

[Vege]

I guess we don't see these anymore.

I will miss those hectic moments
Good medic is going to be even more important than having a good SL in my opinion.

[DaKillerFox]

to OP: You clearly havent gotten the hang of the medic position yet. First of all, the wounded time in PR is about 5 minutes. Thats 5 minutes for your squad to locate and eliminate the enemy, or 5 minutes to wait for your smoke to fill out and the enemy to forget exactly where they shot your buddy. Communicate with your patients. tell them "Ok, im coming in for you, when I get you up start crawling backwards" or "When I revive you, run in this direction". YOUR the medic, its YOUR decision whether or not to revive. As Clay said, if your squadmates dont like your decision, well tough cookies.

Now I agree with you on the SL's position in the formation. They should hang back, but most don't. I know when I'm a squad leader, I lead from the front. If your squad leader goes down, the squads going to be looking to you to help him. They should help you in any way they can to get their leader back. And if they don't, well then your just in a squad full of idiots.

You clearly haven't played with a lot of new players or players who don't care about teamwork. Yes, there is the 5 minute window, but that is assuming that a downed player is going to wait that time. Usually, the respawn time is less than five minutes and most players I see nowadays are not willing to wait to give you the opportunity to revive them, they just respawn as soon as they go down. And this increases if there's a nearby rally, why do they need to wait for the medic to revive them if the RP is less than 100 M away? It's not that we players haven't gotten the hang of the medic position, it's that the medic position is sometimes not appreciated or seems worthless to a squad that doesn't care.

[DaKillerFox]

I guess we don't see these anymore.

I will miss those hectic moments
Good medic is going to be even more important than having a good SL in my opinion.

Wow, is that medic from the Matrix or something?

[Ghost_1ll1]

lol you guys make it sound like ur SL's are dropping like flies.

and no, i really dont care that much if they dont listen and learn, if they dont ask questions they arent ready to listen so why waste my breath? im sure they are having fun anyway

if the fool wants to rambo off and die 15 deaths to my 2 deaths thats fine by me. if its a clan member then i might have a chat with him. but as far as pubs go, why so serious?

alright, i know its more fun if everyone knows their role and plays it 100%, but if you want that maybe look into a casual clan or something(or the TG server w/ mumble is pretty good, although you'll be kicked after 15 minutes of gameplay for a supporting member). scrim w/ other clans and you'll never look at pubs the same again.

to expect it(proper teamwork and tactics) out of everyone in pubs is unrealistic, i just try to have fun w/ whoever in my squad wants to help eachother, usually if 2-3 guys are working together w/ the SL and succeeding while doing it, the rest of ur squad will eventually follow suit, not always but hey what can you do?(besides kick them) :*(

sad face b/c i dont like to kick people just b/c they arent so hot(maybe they are new, exposure to proper conduct can only help them).

btw herbiie, i give QBO's all the time, it aint that hard, getting someone to follow it is, so when 6/10 pub guys fail at taking orders, well... sometimes its not always their fault like getting a nade into a particular window or what have you, so, i just do it myself and save my breath. hell if you want something done right...

anyways thats not to say i havent gotten outstanding pub squads before, it can happen. be patient

[wookimonsta]

if people stay in cover, you can usually revive them there, as when they get shot they fall down behind the cover, problem is lots of people die in the open meaning you gotta smoke em. i usually try to clear the area before sending amedic to get them up

[Herbiie]

btw herbiie, i give QBO's all the time, it aint that hard, getting someone to follow it is, so when 6/10 pub guys fail at taking orders, well... sometimes its not always their fault like getting a nade into a particular window or what have you, so, i just do it myself and save my breath. hell if you want something done right...

MY god give your pubbies some credit... Don't be so damn arrogant - do you REALLY lead a squad thinking "My Members are ****, better do everything myself!" if so then you're nto a very good SL.

Sure your squad may get a good score - but I hardly think that they are enjoying being treated like children, sitting there watching you go infront of them @ shoot people, while they just support you...

If you're squad member isn't listening to orders, KICK THEM. simple as, and if you think they are going to have trouble getting a grenade through a window (They won't though... they have probably been playing this game just as long as you) get them closer to the window.... simples!

If they are new then you tell them that the only best way to play PR is too follow SL orders, oh, and, btw, if you haven't noticed - it's mostly people who have played for a long time who don't follow orders, most new guys, when they join a good squad with a good squad leader, turn shy and just do w.e they're told because that's what everyone else is.

A good Leader should be able to get who ever he's commanding to do as ordered, he should be strong and confident enough to tell his squad members what to do, in such a way that they do it. Best way to do this is at the start of the round tell them what kits they are taking, and exactly what to do when they spawn, in a clear confident voice. Then a new player will follow orders, TRUST me on this.

Also leading from the front means you are a better target for snipers, most SLs lead from the front, with their squad trailing behind them (in a "Conga Line of Death" as we say at WaW), when me and my friend used to run a sniper team, when we engaged a squad we always took out whoever was leading, it's usually the SL.

[goguapsy]

Problem: When I'm SL, I go first, otherwise we tend to go slow. I don't know if its just me, but someone said (correctly) that when you are a SL giving orders, everyone seems slow (ex. you are 50m ahead of your squad while they figure out what to do... the thing is, as a SL, you have to SLOW DOWN, because you already firgured out what to do, and not everyone thinks equally. Also, as someone else said, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Get a trustworthy player to be the lead. And there you go.

[archerfenris]

Many times I find myself a medic. Which isn't a problem. I'm a good one. But without a squad covering me while I move I refuse to help a guy who's in an impossible position. I'm not going to pull a BF2 running into the middle of the road + dolphin dive revive. If you get shot in the middle of the open your dumb *** is shit out of luck for being so careless.

Every once in a while though, I'd like to do the killing. So ppl FFS sign up for medic every once in a while. They get the most points anyway.

[offmason]

I agree with Ghost_1ll1.

1. As squad leader, I primarily take point on long journeys. I order everyone to follow SL, to keep everyone relatively tight in case we all need to respond to fire. This keeps everyone on the same page and gives people constant direction without nagging orders.

2. When there comes a time to breach a house, building or room, I usually send out a rifleman or someone else of that ilk to be point-man on the entry. Right after the room goes CLEAR, I again take point.

3. I try to keep medic at the ready, at the rear, at all times.

[Ghost_1ll1]

As was said by a previous poster, when you died behind cover, the medic most times can revive you easily, so remember, sprint for streets and get a little braver when you find some good cover, i.e. get some rounds downrange soldier!

@herbiie: stop raging and please stop reiterating basics to me as if i dont already do them.(like assigning kits... seriously!?) talk about condescending people as if you dont do it yourself.

Also, there are more windows where grenades go through than windows w/ glass where they won't. If i gave the order for a nade in a spot, its because i KNOW we are close enough. TBH most times i say "who's confident w/ their grenades?" before giving such an order, dont talk to me like you've been in my squads.

anyways... Your problems seem to lie with SL's who blindly run into hot zones and dont wipe your own butt for you. neither of which i can help you with. I am done with this topic.

[DaKillerFox]

I was playing a few nights ago on a map I hadn't played on before. It's where you're in the woods and the MEC start out in the top left corner of the map, NW and there's a train depot down S of the map. What's it called?

Anyways, I feel bad for the SL of our squad 'cause he had a squad full of newbies, a few guys didn't even have headsets. Anyways, we were making our way to the forests when he set a move marker on the train depot. He tells us to move to the marker and gather some intel.

Three of us in the squad made it to the marker and were scoping the area for enemies. I asked the SL what he wanted us to do? He didn't respond. So I told the entire squad that I was going to go in for a closer look. Next thing I know, there's someone running up towards the gate where a road runs through the train depot. I check my map and it's the SL, he didn't even announce he was on the move, last I looked he was 50 m behind us. Well, an enemy sneaks up behind the SL and starts shooting at him. I have fix on the enemy and I take him out, just saved the SL's life.

I then ask him what to do and he yells back at me "I want you to find their #@$&$ rally point!" Ok sir, sheesh. Well, we all make a move for the train depot, all three of us SM's. By this time the SL is up the hill on the other side of the train depot, at least 100 m from us. When all of a sudden a few enemies show up and start shooting at him and at us. He calls for return fire and another guy in our squad starts shooting that direction. Well, standing in the way between us and the enemies is the SL. That guy TK's the SL, then him and the medic (first time I think he played medic) run up the hill, pop some green smoke and get shot. In the confusion we all go down.

I facepalm and go WTF? The guy who TK'd the SL types out "sorry" and then "we should talk more!" I just laugh uncontrollably and ask the SL where we should all spawn. I get no response from the SL, he is radio silence.

I do wish SL's took control more often than not. If a SM isn't going to follow orders, you don't necessarily have to kick him from the squad, but take charge of the ones that do listen. I try to follow SL orders as best I can and appreciate it when a SL shows a little patience and understanding since I'm still relatively new.

[Jedimushroom]

Squad leaders aren't being asked to babysit retarded people, they have a job to do and a part to play just like everyone else. All this "My squad won't do EXACTLY what I tell them ALL THE TIME" stuff is starting to grate, perhaps it is you who is not doing the job right? Take some responsibility for your actions squad leaders, and stop whining.