Project Reality Forums

[R-CON]Rudd wrote:please stop working with other squads?........what's your problem?

While I agree wholeheartedly with the initial intent of this thread, I'd rather not have other SLs using mumble to take away my squaddies. Too often have I seen people run off during a coordinated, inter-squad attack just so they can be with the "cool kids" on mumble. It kinda ruins the tactics if everyone wants to blob together. But, let's not turn this into a mumble argument thread.

On a side note, I find this "2 to tango" principle to be true for other inf squads as well. It's really annoying to see a single squad go on the offensive, get wiped, and complain that they weren't supported.

kk google, but I meant the impromptu fireteam thing as a good aspect like if you see a dude in a window, and there is a blue guy about to walk in his line of fire or whatever

Fully agree with ur comment on infantry squads, though human blob formations are a pain all because theres 12 of you instead of 6 doesn't mean you shouldn't get in some cover lads try and stay on the left or right of other other squad, so that you're close enough to work as a single unit, while not being more vulnerable, and at the same time try to say in your own squad, otherwise it can get confusing and you'lll all get suppressed at the same time.

As an APC squad leader I try to make it a rule to stay within about 200 meters of infantry defending the current defend marker.

If people ask for rides or ammo I give it to them.

I DO NOT JUST DRIVE UP TO PEOPLE TO SEE IF THEY WANT A RIDE! I will gladly give you support but if you want me to physically drive next to you to pick you up ASK!

hey one reason some APC crews are "dicks" is b/c theyre fighting and they cant pick you up. I was on Kashan and my BMP squad was at N.B. fighitng an Abrams, well i had some genius SL yelling at me "PICK US UP YOU MORON!!1" and i kept telling him wait for us to kill the enemy then we can get them, but he just kept on yelling and screaming. i mean if we die with them then 6 more ppl would die as opposed to 2 crews.

Sniper_dog14 wrote:As an APC squad leader I try to make it a rule to stay within about 200 meters of infantry defending the current defend marker.

If people ask for rides or ammo I give it to them.

I DO NOT JUST DRIVE UP TO PEOPLE TO SEE IF THEY WANT A RIDE! I will gladly give you support but if you want me to physically drive next to you to pick you up ASK!

I do when I drive an APC.

If I'm not engaged and I see a squad moving by a road or something (though not squad who is obviously flanking or being sneaky) I'll drive over and ask them if they need a ride over mumble, 9/10 times they say "Sure!"

Whenever I've been Sl I've never bothered asking for a ride - I've never actually got one when I've asked before.

@Ma: Against an Abrahams.... Dude you're going to die if you fight it (unless it's crew is ****) lol, you should of deployed smoke and broken contact then gone and given the squad a ride.

ma21212 wrote:hey one reason some APC crews are "dicks" is b/c theyre fighting and they cant pick you up. I was on Kashan and my BMP squad was at N.B. fighitng an Abrams, well i had some genius SL yelling at me "PICK US UP YOU MORON!!1" and i kept telling him wait for us to kill the enemy then we can get them, but he just kept on yelling and screaming. i mean if we die with them then 6 more ppl would die as opposed to 2 crews.

Infantry can be dicks too

[R-CON]Rudd wrote:Infantry can be dicks too

I think we can safely say that PR Players in general (APCs, Tanks, Jets, Helis, Snipers, infantry, Squad leaders, commanders, and everything else) can be dicks

dtacs wrote:Took the words right off my keyboard. APCs job is transport and support, so you're expected to do it without being asked. But instead of expecting THEM to get in, ask if they need a ride first.

You... you do realize I was being facetious, right?

Nimble wrote:You... you do realize I was being facetious, right?

I sure hope so, or else a bit of my soul has committed suicide.

ma21212 wrote:hey one reason some APC crews are "dicks" is b/c theyre fighting and they cant pick you up. I was on Kashan and my BMP squad was at N.B. fighitng an Abrams, well i had some genius SL yelling at me "PICK US UP YOU MORON!!1" and i kept telling him wait for us to kill the enemy then we can get them, but he just kept on yelling and screaming. i mean if we die with them then 6 more ppl would die as opposed to 2 crews.

I think I know what you are saying and I just want to expand.
2 crews in a TOW APC = 12 tickets (2 plus 10 for the APC)
6 infantry = 6 tickets
A TOW APC trying to pick up a squad who asks for a ride, then takes 30 seconds to get into the vehicle and the whole bunch eats a HAT = 18 points.

Clearly, using APCs for transports are way more risky than they should be points wise. Most things that will kill any transport will also kill an APC. The vast majority of my deaths while transporting have been due to waiting for infantry to get in or out, and now I just leave the slow players behind on the once a month occasion where someone actually wants transport.

Al Kufrah Oilfields is the absolute worst map for APC transport. Both teams have TOW APCS, both middle flags are easily covered from any angle so driving an APC into the flag zone to pick up a squad is risking death. Add the difficulty in a squad grouping up for the same reasons and you end up with slow, dangerous extracts and dropoffs that are almost always at the gates.

There is a reason no one asks for transport and refer to APCs as metal coffins.

For a map to have effective APC transport there needs to be the following circumstances:
The APCs must not carry TOWs or be able to kill each other. WZ551A's vs Strykers would work.
No TOW vehicles on the map, limited AT for opposition.
Enough terrain for the APCs to hug cover.
Large enough area for the APC to avoid hotzones where a HAT may reside, but still be able to drop troops within walking distance.

A well run Stryker squad on Ramiel/Karbala can survive long portions of time if they avoid mines. On any map with open space, TOWs or tanks they are less safe to run around in than a humvee and worth 5 times the price if they have a TOW. Basically giving the APC a TOW and doubling the price makes the APC a default tank because they are worth too many points to risk picking people up in.

I agree with the OP that transportation can't be blamed if no one asks. I also think that people who complain about APCs being used as tanks don't understand that the game play favors that behavior. Being expected to provide both anti tank fire support and infantry transport makes the APCs less focused, and the long time to switch from anti infantry to anti-tank makes infantry support difficult. I would prefer to see more non-TOW variants on maps where APCs are intended to be the only transportation, like the APCs are on Muttrah.

As as SL, I used to ask for APC transport but nobody responded, even with 2 or 3 APCs up. So now I don't request as I'm used to not getting transport anyway, so there isn't any point. But if people did transport troops when asked, I'd be happy asking for it. I think APCs are mixed roles, they should be fighting until they are asked for transport, in which case they should respond as quickly as possible.

If an INF SL doesn't ask for transport, or respond to an APC SL when asked if they need transport, then there is no reason to complain and "expect" the apc to drive slowly next to you until you realize that its more than 5 miles of walking to the next flag and not pay any attention to and dangers that are coming near you or which are far away.

It is up to the SL's, or the CO (if there is one) to help coordinate transportation etc. Yes APC's are for transport and support of infantry but they shouldn't be used just for infantry.

For Example:
Tracked APCs have Anti-Tank TOW capabilities; if a SL doesn't want transport after being asked, or if he doesn't ask the Tracked APC can help setup a perimeter on a nearby/next flag and suppress/destroy enemy infantry/tracked vehicles, hummvw's etc.

dtacs wrote:Took the words right off my keyboard. APCs job is transport and support, so you're expected to do it without being asked. But instead of expecting THEM to get in, ask if they need a ride first.

This aint valid. As an APC driver, i mostly try to pick ppl up near me, to either transport them faster forward, or to actually shield them from enemy small arms fire in a quick push forward to next building or so.

This often leads to be beeing waiting for 5 smurfs who look at the apc biping and standing there thinking... "wtf?" while one of them complains "wait for my friends!!".

Seriously, if they aint gona rush in, i aint waiting for them, so many times i got LATed or HATed because i had to just stand there.

Point is... if they want it, "ASK FOR IT AND WAIT FOR IT, or else gtfo"

If I see people standing around I'll pick them up, of course. But if you want a ride somewhere else, ask for it. Simple. Disagree? Enjoy the walk.

I actually quite like walking, its a bit more interesting knowing you could be shot any second from anywhere

dtacs wrote:Took the words right off my keyboard. APCs job is transport and support, so you're expected to do it without being asked. But instead of expecting THEM to get in, ask if they need a ride first.

You my good sir, are wrong.


You don't know the frustration of sneaking through enemy territory for half an hour only to have your ambush/stealth whatever sabotaged by some idiot pilot flying up to your squad, giving away your position and then getting shot down.


Transport, support and supplies are and should be limited to those who request it.
If you don't request anything, we have to assume you have everything you need and you have the situation under control.

I agree that it is down to the infantry-naughts to ask for that transport. However, its all too common that in some cases (Kufrah being a good example) APC-naughts will forget the nature of their role.

In the case of Kufrah, I think the deployment of full-blown IFVs causes this problem in the mind of players. Perhaps the lesser-armed APCs would suit better, giving both INF and APC more incentive to depend on each other for survival and victory.

...mongol...

[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude wrote: its all too common that in some cases (Kufrah being a good example) APC-naughts will forget the nature of their role.

or just get forgotten by the APC. I usually find that while Inf can rely on APC transport, "support" typically involves the APC 's surpressing for 5 seconds, and then running off on their own little adventure. Hardly a combined-arms action