Why no inter-squad teamwork?

[gazzthompson]

I misread what you said and edited.

[offmason]

badmojo420, what do you think?

Back in .8, as a SL I would commonly leave my rally near the rally of another able squad. I believed that strength in numbers was a good strategy. I would usually try to group up with other squads on the map and provide them support by following or covering their flank. With the new patch, if you help out another squad in a fire fight... you may very well have to experience the inconvenience of walking for years. Hence, I rather go my own way -- because some squads attract fire more than others. I don't feel like helping - because my squad-mates will pay the price; ie: exercising their internet legs.

to be frank, who cares what people say in the servers? come post here if they dislike the effect. be part of the community and talk with the devs. they couldnt be assed to oppose it during the beta so thats there problem.

Theres a reason why the forums have feedback threads, devs cant monitor the servers.

Who cares what people say in the servers? Perhaps if I was part of a development team that actually cared about the players at large, instead of just a few fan-boys on beta servers that wouldn't stop playing even if soldiers started to wear rainbow camouflage, perhaps I would care about what PR players in general have to say -- especially when there is a drastic change in game play.

The point is, PR is arguably going to continue on. However, I just do not think this recent patch has retained the quality of game play in past builds. From what I've seen, many... many agree.

I came here in response to the OP's question. I gave my opinion.
I believe that inter-squad cooperation took a hit with the new rally system.

[SCE_BloodyStars]

Personally I think the new rally system has boosted the teamwork ingame to a much higher level than before. That being said I think that topic is a little to hot right now and isn't for this thread.

The way I see it is, your always going to get alot of n00bers with the release of a new build. The problem here lies in getting these n00bers to understand how the game works and the way it is ment to be played. Yes training servers helped me learn how to fly and drive, but that was about it, once in an actual server you have to learn as you go. The responsibility of teaching and making sure these new guys follow the rules lies directly in the hands of the admins, I think. Too many times have I gone into a server and complained about one squad just constantly wasting tickets and assets trying to do something on the other side of the map, and gotten the response of, "Well their not really breaking any rules so we can't do anything." One problem used to be that it was really hard to admin a PR server because the admin really couldn't be there to see what was going on. What could have been a swift kick to the butt turns into a globalchat arguement and a gameplay meltdown of massive proportions. With .9 now out and the specator mode in use I think the admins need to take some time out of gaming themselves and invest it into admining the server for a while, atleast untill all the n00bers have been properly trained and theres not as many of them. As far as mumble goes.. I think it should be a damn requirement for everyone playing the game. I don't know how I survived PR without mumble but the diffrence in inter-squad work DRASTICALLY changes between those people in mumble, and the "mumbleless."

[Nuts!]

I've seen the new system in action, and it definitely makes things tougher if you're not prepared. Wait a month, tho, and youll probly see some change - SLs and SMs being more cautious, better use of transports, more ambush teams to nix the transports, etc.

In the end, it's too early to tell for sure, but in my opinion as an SL leading moderately smart groups the new system makes things better. Without an easy respawn, people are a lot less likely to risk their virtual necks, they call for medic and they finally wait before giving up. Theres plenty of 1337 players being asshats, but they'd be there anyway and the new system keeps them from wasting tickets so easy (at least till the helis and jets spawn).

So yeah, it's got problems for sure, but people will probly learn to deal with them like they learned to deal with RPs in the first place. Try giving it some time before calling for the old RPs again.

[Zi8]

yeah, it is a real problem. Mumble has been flaunted around as the "answer", but I'm really not much of a fan. what pubbies really need is a competant commander who's not only willing to place arty fire, but organize platoon-level movement. probably unrealistic, but you can't expect squad leaders to have both a good tactical sense of their position while doing serious inter-squad strategizing.

That's why our server regulars/admins have been Commanders mostly in insurgency maps and made the whole US team move as a one big team. If squads go solo or stupid == kick/ban and suddenly people are interested in working together and there has been some really epic rounds.

I also lead a group of 18 men yesterday in Gaza Beach with Mumble + had a tank squad in sl channel... pure madness all the round apart from the times caches were very hard to find from the city area

[SCE_BloodyStars]

That's why our server regulars/admins have been Commanders mostly in insurgency maps and made the whole US team move as a one big team. If squads go solo or stupid == kick/ban and suddenly people are interested in working together and there has been some really epic rounds.

I also lead a group of 18 men yesterday in Gaza Beach with Mumble + had tank squad in sl channell... pure madness all the round apart from the times caches were very hard to find from the city area

Mumble is definatly the lifesaver of a crumbling team It's simple to use and not that big of a hassle.

[space]

In some ways mumble is a better version of the commander with some other nice features on top. If you're on a "mumble-less server", then go commander! ( Even better - go commander on a mumble server! )

I realise that half the team will often ignore you, but you soon find out which squads they are, so you just concentrate on the squads that are willing to listen. Its great when you see the squads respond to your markers, and your teams fortunes are turned around. The UAV and area attacks are very useful too.

[CodeRedFox]

Perhaps if I was part of a development team that actually cared about the players at large, instead of just a few fan-boys on beta servers

Please, that's why your NOT part of the dev team. We don't make PR for the masses, we don't want to play with the masses. The unwashed masses are what bring games down to ****. That's what Vbf2 is for..the masses. And the new system work great for us and those that we like to play with seems to agree.

If majority ruled or we listened to the masses over the fan's most things that separate PR from your mass-friendly games, wouldn't be here.

But PR is never final, nothing stays untouched, not until the last DEV will it be final. We come up with and idea, test it with the testers team, hit it up with some beat testers and if all goes well we release. And for us the beta went well. Then we step back and let the tard and noob dust settle for a few weeks or months and then look at the how, when and why's and then re-evaluate where to go from there.

[snooggums]

Who cares what people say in the servers? Perhaps if I was part of a development team that actually cared about the players at large, instead of just a few fan-boys on beta servers that wouldn't stop playing even if soldiers started to wear rainbow camouflage, perhaps I would care about what PR players in general have to say -- especially when there is a drastic change in game play.

When TG went through the beta changes there was a hue backlash of opinions such as yours from TG members and regulars as we went through the no rallies at all/limited rallies/one crate FoB changes. Many, many good players thought the rally removal would end PR, and it took a good 3 weeks before most payers were on board. I'm not sure if any of them want to go back now that we have limited rallies to regroup once and more and easier to build FoB's for defense.

Of course, only a few were as negative as you about the players that liked the changes. Maybe that is why you are getting such direct responses to your comments, sticking to the changes and not attacking those that disagree would probably go far.

I love the changes to limit rallies, and I really hated the no rally at all initial test.

[Cassius]

^^^ This is the problem. And even when you do go commander, they just say STFU

Wrong server, there are a handfull of servers who do appreciate teamwork. Players looking for a good experience need to become regulars on a server so they are among likeminded people.
Players who just want to "shoot stuff" will deploy to any server with a free spot.

[Yeti Pilot]

Try to join Tactical gamer, Texas team players, Tactics and teamwork, or Virginia they usually have some good team players on.

[Zimmer]

Or RT mumble server you will find tons of inter squad communications as long as there is a major part of the player base using mumble in most of the servers that is named

[killonsight95]

RT mumble is **** because everyone is in the same channel and you can hear the enemy which is why i never play on that server TG is much better

[Pronck]

RT mumble is **** because everyone is in the same channel and you can hear the enemy which is why i never play on that server TG is much better

But in RL you also hear the enemy talking, but in another language.

[killonsight95]

you don't hear their radio signils unless you tune into there radio and their voice would not carry that far

[Redamare]

Yea mumble = Only REAL way for Squad to Squad cooporation because it is SOO hard for them to communcate any other way... typing is kind of effective ... but the new squad leader radio now sort of lets the other squads know where enemys are with the icon setting feature.. so yes mumble is the only REAL way it needs to be Forced or some sort of requirment :S

[Herbiie]

you don't hear their radio signils unless you tune into there radio and their voice would not carry that far

And mumble doesn't represent that, VoiP represents radio, mumble shouting.

Also it's great being able to hear the enemy too - it's the ONLY time I've ever had to tell my squad to shut up because the enemy is near by - you do know that if you talk in real life then people nearby can hear you? Even if you're on your radio.....

[killonsight95]

not 70 meters away though.....

[Herbiie]

not 70 meters away though.....

You will it will just be quiet - like it is in mumble, seeing as it's pretty quiet when they are enar you at 70m you just hear a faint noise.

Btw, no inter-squad play? BS: PR 0.9 With Mumble - Xfire Video

That's RT mumble, the one you hate so much.

[DaKillerFox]

Not to bemoan the issue, but I for one enjoy the new rally system. I like how it forces squads to put up FOBs because honestly, RP's can easily get overrun by the enemy, which makes them useless. And many times, people spawn on a rally and run off, why they don't wait for the rest of the squad, I have no idea. But with FOBs it's slower, because people will go to crates to request kits and such.

But to answer the OP's question. I find that as a SM, I rarely ever play with other squads, simply because I can't communicate with them. Sometimes the game is so intense that I don't have time to type out a message to the blue guy next to me. Sometimes I'll follow a squad if I get separated from my squad, but even their medics don't heal me. And for the record, whenever I play medic, I always try to heal other squads who are hurt, and usually they respond with surprise that I am healing them. Having said all this, I have experienced Mumble and it is the key to at least getting members of different squads to work together if not the solution for getting whole squads to work together. For those of you knocking mumble, you have to give it a try first and this has to be with a server that has a lot of users as you running around as the only one on mumble won't cut it. Before, when I became isolated from my squad and I'm surrounded by blues, I felt alone and isolated, because I couldn't communicate with the other players. But now, I don't feel like I am a green lost among blues, I run with blues and I can get ranges from blue SL's and even ask for ammo or ask for patches and such with Mumble. I've never had a blue give me a patch until I was on Mumble.