Making Autocannons More Powerful

[Eddie Baker]

If I haven't gone completely batty, something like the Mk44 can cleanly punch through thick reinforced concrete walls.

Mk-44? The cannon on the Apache is the M230; it fires 30 x 113mm. The Mk-44 Bushmaster II fires 30 x 173mm, the same as the GAU-8 Avenger on the A-10. Yes, that round can punch through reinforced concrete, but it isn't on the Apache.

[Hunt3r]

Mk-44? The cannon on the Apache is the M230; it fires 30 x 113mm. The Mk-44 Bushmaster II fires 30 x 173mm, the same as the GAU-8 Avenger on the A-10. Yes, that round can punch through reinforced concrete, but it isn't on the Apache.

Oh, I know that, just saying that the Mk44, which would probably be on APCs and others. I'd gander that the M242 has more power then the M230, and would be able to go through some concrete, but definitely not as much as the Mk44.

[USMCMIDN]

BloodBane611;1306361']A 25mm HEI round will penetrate through walls, but it's not going to damage an individual inside a building just by fragmenting against the ground on the other side of the wall.

A really terribly drawn example:


Just giving HEI rounds splash damage, both of the above terribly drawn stick figures would be dead. I would love to see directional splash damage of some sort, but HEI does not kill people through walls unless it actually hits on or near those walls. The round must actually expend its energy against the wall, it's not some sort of circle-of-death-through-walls.

best drawing ever

[Jaymz]

best drawing ever

indeed...

[Hunt3r]

In Muttrah city, I've found that a salvo of 3 autocannon rounds is very weak against infantry, especially HEI-T. Are autocannons really such peashooters? The autocannon seems to be focused on spamming the enemy to death, and using the coax only in emergencies, when in reality the autocannon has to conserve ammo.

I just get the feeling that either the autocannon's damage is not "right" relative to everything else, or everything else is scaled wrong, and the autocannon is fine.

[Rudd]

I dunno hunter, I've been on the receiving end quite a bit, and they hurt from quite far away, I may not be dead after one hits near me....but I will be very soon if I don't get a medic.

[Silly_Savage]

I agree with Rudd, I find it quite easy to rack up quite a number of kills with them.

[TristanYockell]

I play as insurgents alot and I must say that you do not want to be on the recieving end of an autocannon ever. You avoid that situation at all costs and when you don't you get phucked up or get dead real quick, what more do you want?.

[***LeGeNDK1LLER***]

mmm my only complain is the accuracy of the autocannon in bradley,well im not a crewman in real life ecc.so the mine is just a sensation.

if you guys can confirm the accuracy is realistic well i can sleep queitly tonight

[Mongolian_dude]

I agree with Rudd and Savage, the weapons seem to be lethal enough to me. But it would indeed be nice if HEI-T rounds penetrated most walls.
Ideally, it would explode on impact, creating a blast on the side of the wall it impacts on, then the projectile carries on/is recreated on the other side and explodes 1m on the opposite side of the wall; simulating the penetration, detonation and splintering caused by the round.

...mongol...

[Hunt3r]

Well, it might just be a case of time feeling as if it slows down, because that bloody guy holding a HAT never seems to die, no matter how much lead you pump into him.

Might just be a case of needing a small supply area in the range of up to 3 meters that would insta-kill people in it. If this would be a fix that could be reverted without having to release a new client installer, include it in .92, if people whine, revert back to default via server-side changes.

Also, the point still stands that the APFSDS-T on the M242 will go through a BMP and cause a mobility kill within 3-5 shots at average range.

[Hunt3r]

Bump because new information has come into existence.

Sorry to revive this 15 day old thread (ok not that old), but I got something interesting.

Here, I made a table to show the actual damages cause by a LAV and a BTR in PR. I made this to clear a bit the difference between BTR-60 and LAV-25 and how they can withstand each others.

I rounded most of the values, so it doesn't take exactly the same amount of bullets and times to take out an APC, most because of the "critical state" that eat up Hitpoints each seconds when the APC lose 90% of his HP...

-----------------------------
25mm HEI vs BTR-60
-----------------------------
Rate of fire : 200 rpm
Body | Dam. 3%/shot | Will kill with 34 shots within 10 sec.
Glass parts | Dam 10%/shot | Will kill with 10 shots within 3 sec.
Thin metal plate | Dam 10%/shot | Will kill with 10 shots within 3 sec.
Wood parts | Dam 10%/shot | Will kill with 10 shots within 3 sec.
Tires | Dam 7.5%/shot | Will kill with 14 shots within 4 sec.
----------------------------
25mm AP vs BTR-60
----------------------------
Rate of fire : 200 rpm
Body | Dam. 2.17%/shot | Will kill with 47 shots within 14 sec.
Glass parts | Dam 10.8%/shot | Will kill with 10 shots within 3 sec.
Thin metal plate | Dam 10.8%/shot | Will kill with 10 shots within 3 sec.
Wood parts | Dam 10.8%/shot | Will kill with 10 shots within 3 sec.
Tires | Dam 8.13%/shot | Will kill with 13 shots within 4 sec.
----------------------------
14.5mm vs LAV-25
----------------------------
Rate of fire : 550 rpm
Body | Dam. 1.72%/shot | Will kill with 59 shots within 7 sec.
Glass parts | Useless (no damages at all)
Thin metal plate | Useless
Tires | Useless

I don't think the KPVT users need to be nerfed, just maybe lesser the effect of 14.5mm against LAV for balance sake. Other then that, the fire rate of both should stay at it is, so we still keep some asymmetry to make things better.

Source: Of course, me

-Bob

If this is true, then autocannon AP damage against certain materials need changing. Also, since the LAV based APCs with 25mm cannons are no longer directly facing off the BTR-60, the power of the 25mm AP needs to be amped up against armor, in Yamalia I've found that any old BTR-80, whether with the 14.5mm cannon or 30mm 2A72 will easily destroy an LAV-3. So either the LAV needs to get a tougher skin, or autocannons in general need to be able to M-kill more rapidly. While it may benefit the Russian 30mm, the M242 will benefit more, allowing it to disable the enemy APC/IFV, then be able to finish them off without having to risk being fired upon.

Currently, IFVs pretty much require an ATGM to take out enemy IFVs without getting in serious risk of a quick death if the other side uses Russian equipment. IRL, I'm pretty sure that it makes infinitely more sense to engage enemy APCs with autocannon, and save the ATGMs for the tanks.

[DenvH]

Currently, IFVs pretty much require an ATGM to take out enemy IFVs without getting in serious risk of a quick death if the other side uses Russian equipment. IRL, I'm pretty sure that it makes infinitely more sense to engage enemy APCs with autocannon, and save the ATGMs for the tanks.

Don't really agree here, there is always the aspect of teamwork and tactics here, and in general the one that spots and engages with the cannon first will win. Also friendly infantry should always be around you or in front of you to spot and report hostile armour. This way you know where the enemy is and have the advantage, open fire first ect..

[Jaymz]

Material error regarding 25-30mm AP rounds vs BTR-60 Armour, was doing less than half the damage it does to a BTR-80 oops?

fixed for next version

[Hunt3r]

Jaymz;1444723']Material error regarding 25-30mm AP rounds vs BTR-60 Armour, was doing less than half the damage it does to a BTR-80 oops?

fixed for next version

Hopefully the AAV will be able to kill the BTRs and MT-LBs with about 15-20 rounds of M19, or else this could end poorly for the USMC in Muttrah...

As long as it only takes 20 rounds for a 25mm autocannon to destroy APCs from all angles, and IFVs from the sides and rear if better armored, I'm a happy man.

[Jaymz]

Hopefully the AAV will be able to kill the BTRs and MT-LBs with about 15-20 rounds of M19, or else this could end poorly for the USMC in Muttrah...

11-12 direct hits for an MT-LB or BTR-60.

Doesn't change the fact that you'll want to use the 50cal on those targets. The Mk19 has spread and doesn't do damage to armour without direct hits, as is the nature of HEDP rounds. BTR-60 is very vulnerable to 50cal fire and the MT-LB series is no more protected from direct hits than a HMMWV.

As long as it only takes 20 rounds for a 25mm autocannon to destroy APCs from all angles, and IFVs from the sides and rear if better armored, I'm a happy man.

Yeah it's around 20. Varies depending on the APC.

[Hunt3r]

11-12 direct hits for an MT-LB or BTR-60.

Doesn't change the fact that you'll want to use the 50cal on those targets. The Mk19 has spread and doesn't do damage to armour without direct hits, as is the nature of HEDP rounds. BTR-60 is very vulnerable to 50cal fire and the MT-LB series is no more protected from direct hits than a HMMWV.

Well I figure in certain distances the Mk19 would be fine, in conjunction with 50 cal.

Would be interesting if Mouse1 fired the Mk19, and Mouse2 would fire the M2, and switching to weapon slot 2 gave you the M2 and smoke grenade launch.

Would be a rather quick death for the BTR-60, I think.

[PLODDITHANLEY]

It all depends on how the AAV3 with Mk19 pans out in the hands of the unwashed masses. Surprising that a BTR-60 and MT-LB are so affected by .50 fire.

[Dev1200]

It all depends on how the AAV3 with Mk19 pans out in the hands of the unwashed masses. Surprising that a BTR-60 and MT-LB are so affected by .50 fire.

MK19 mixed with .50 cal would devistate a BTR-60. Lets just hope the AAVP (whatever you wanna call em ) can withstand 14.5

[Eddie Baker]

Would be interesting if Mouse1 fired the Mk19, and Mouse2 would fire the M2, and switching to weapon slot 2 gave you the M2 and smoke grenade launch.

No, the UGWS cannot fire both the Mk-19 and M2 at the same time; you will have to switch between the two weapons.