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My biggest issue with transporting troops as a APC/IFV driver is that they sit in an IED/RPG infested street and wait/expect you to come to them to pick them up. They are either to lazy or to stupid to realize that they my armor going down that street would be suicide for us. If we get destroyed because they are to lazy to run 200 meters down a safer alley then they dont get transport either way. I'm all for giving troops rides, but plz be smart about how and when you ask for it. I will help you out the best I can, but my number one responsibility to the team is to help them win, not to go get your lazy *** because you feel it is your right not to have to walk a couple hundred feet.

Another note. We have enough to worry about with TOW emplacements, RPG's, Bomb cars/trucks, HATS, other Armor, etc. Don't expect us to see all the text that scrolls across the screen. Please have your SL use the comm rose to request transport. If your squadleader doesn't have a SL kit....then is your squad really worth my time?

Also agree with OP i was playing on the Russian side yesterday on Silent Eagle and we had
an APC supporting us all the way we did kind of a blitzkrieg tactic and won with

the other team didnt know what hit them, we capped them out because we where able to get safely around the map really fast and would have cover fire while charging and capping a flag

Draakon wrote:True, IFVs might be on the same level as tanks, but they are not. They still roll with infantry. If you want to destroy the enemy, take a tank. If you want to stay with a infantry, take a APC/IFV. Both can't be done.

IFV's don't roll with infantry. APC's do. However, for the IFV's with carrying capability do both perfectly, a prime example being the BMP-3. We must take into account its ability to destroy an Abrams with a TOW, and then about 3 seconds worth of 30mm AP. Quicker than a T-72.

Its only downfall as such an effective system is the time it takes to stabilize when coming over hills and terrain.

While I generally play infantry, I do lead APC squads sometimes and I always try to make transporting/supporting the infantry my first priority. However, ill get guys in my squads who just give me the directions with what should happen and direct me as the driver or gunner often, and in these cases will not do anything with infantry transport rather want to go super cautious to places on the map to take out enemy infantry and vehicles. I still tell them hey lets go pick up these guys they look like they need it. And their like no we have to cap this flag etc/and they just take control. In those cases I don't have a lot of control or they would just put me down, however if I get more chill APC drivers who listen to me rather than they thinking they have to run the show Infantry is the number 1 priority.

Like yesterday I played a round on Yamalia, as a APC squad on Russia. I had a great squad who just was flexible and listened and was also knowledgeable about APC crewing so it worked well and we did well with the whole squad only loosing a couple APCS. We transported people constantly, and went to flags where the infantry was capping and gave them help against enemy APCS. It was great and we dominated the round because of how effective infantry was moved to flags and the support that happened.

As far as the transport issue goes I understand as I have lead squads or been in squads that i've called for transport and asked for it with active APCS and they either ignore to don't communicate well if they can't. Often does happen that they'd rather just go around using the APC as a tank against the enemy rather than helping infantry. Doesn't seem real often you get real cooperative APC squads in my experience.

Then you can be a cooperative APC squad and infantry either just refuse your help or don't communicate that they need transport, and then complain about it later or just are plain dumb about it. Yesterday on Yamalia there was random guys in the middle of the map far away from any flag, so on the way up I stopped to pick them up and sometimes just refused to get in and look at me. Im like ok suit yourself 900 M to the nearest flag walk then and drove off, but mostly infantry did communicate/cooperate well.

So yeah i've seen both sides of it, and I personally do the best i can either as inf or the apc to make best use of them.

The problem with IFVs is that they don't have a clear doctrinal use. For the Bradley, it's too tall to do sneak and peaks, too slow to be a scout, carries too much to transport many troops(Not applicable here), has far too little armor, has ammo everywhere, and pretty much explodes if you so much as sneeze at it, and too busy trying to kill tanks and armor then to try and be fire support for troops.

I cannot even explain how much this topic has been discussed and bitched about, yet those in the APC/IFV won't do their job of supporting infantry. Every once in awhile you'll run across a select few that help out, but most just run off and do their own thing after taking a squad into the field when the round first starts. I agree that they need to do their job, but until server admins crack down on this as "wasting assets", I highly doubt that the APC/IFV crewmen will change.

darkside12 wrote:I cannot even explain how much this topic has been discussed and bitched about, yet those in the APC/IFV won't do their job of supporting infantry. Every once in awhile you'll run across a select few that help out, but most just run off and do their own thing after taking a squad into the field when the round first starts. I agree that they need to do their job, but until server admins crack down on this as "wasting assets", I highly doubt that the APC/IFV crewmen will change.

Dunno about you, but in general, people only try to pull this kind of stunt in maps where the APC or IFV is the biggest baddest thing in the map.

-=TB=-Tobakfromcuba wrote:its not that apcs go off alone to the frontline, just anyone goes to the front, no one defends.
the day ppl get the patience to fight step by step, squads will be transported and apcs will be weaved into the fighting element

^^ This is all that needs to be said on the subject tbh.

darkside12 wrote: Every once in awhile you'll run across a select few that help out,

<----- The Few the proud, the ones that know what APC stands for

There's another side to this I rarely see discussed.

When APCs do ask if anyone needs a ride, rarely do any squads step up and do their part. I can't count the number of times I've started to transport a squad, only to have them promptly run off and leave me exposed with no infantry support. More frequently, people flat out ignore the teamchat queries if anyone needs transport and complain loudly when no one helps them.

Last time i play on Karbala, 2 strykers, 1 abrams and 2 gunship working realy close to infantry, it was realy great but in the end i kill 5 US Inf with a rocket strike... by accident but that was a disaster .

Anyway back on topic, if infantry dont ask, and keep on telling to APC/IFV to go away, then it will keep on going and but a weak point for a long time.

Once again, IFVs are really, to me, a doctrinal quagmire. They have to do so much that it's pretty much useless. Trying to cram everything in one package means everyone loses.

mat552 wrote:There's another side to this I rarely see discussed.

When APCs do ask if anyone needs a ride, rarely do any squads step up and do their part. I can't count the number of times I've started to transport a squad, only to have them promptly run off and leave me exposed with no infantry support. More frequently, people flat out ignore the teamchat queries if anyone needs transport and complain loudly when no one helps them.

You raise a very good point there, mat. But I'd say thats a player-wide problem, not just exclusive to APCs. I feel 8/10 squads have a mind set that they are green and everyone else is blue and Squads work as squads. I've become very picky about playing PR now, and have acquired a taste only for inter-unit teamwork.

Platoons and companies are the future of teamwork. A solitary squad doesn't even constitute as teamwork to me any more!
Roll with mumble; roll in platoons; roll with teamwork; assault team; fire support; win.


...mongol...

'[R-MOD wrote:Mongolian_dude;1310502']

Platoons and companies are the future of teamwork. A solitary squad doesn't even constitute as teamwork to me any more!
Roll with mumble; roll in platoons; roll with teamwork; assault team; fire support; win.


...mongol...

QFTW, but I blame the players expectations too. You get what you put into it. Many players have still a deathmatch mentality when it comes to putting a game toegether, log on and play with whoever is online. That worked fine back in the day, but if you want to play a videogame as a teamsport, you have to put in the same effort as in any other teamsport, find a regular crowd lay down the law and play.

It does not have to be everyday of the week, but if you and 60 other people can make time sunday evening that will be far more rewarding than 4 so so games in one week. And if you do need to let steam off on a wendsday, LEFT FOR DEAD, or Defcon everybody dies.

For a long time, my solution to this problem has been to roll in combined arms squad. Something along the lines of 2 guys crewing an apc, and the other four playing infantry. You are one squad, so comms aren't a problem, the infantry get transport and heavy fire support, and the APC gets infantry support. The only problem with this is that most servers run the "Name you're squad after the used asset" rule, which invariably turns into squads that are all inf, all armor, etc. The only exception to this seems to be CAS squads, which usually have a spotter element. These is really the only "combined arms squads" that I normally see, and they typically function much better than if the CAS squad doesn't have it's own spotter team.