Project Reality Forums

darkside12 wrote:Even faster than that. 100 km/h=62 mph=53 knots. I figure most will cruise somewhere around 185 km/h=115 mph=100 knots.

Still, shooting down a helicopter IRL with a TOW is practically impossible. I think they should have 1. lower ammo count 2. fire delay 3. hell of a lot slower transversing 4. lower max elevation 5. slower reload time.

U mean take them out of the game or what? Ok the chopper thing i understand. But to change the tow in a way that its useless against anything isnt the way imo.

Fire Delay and the look up angle change is all that is needed imo. But dont lower it so hard that u cant shoot at tanks in the hills of kashan when u build a fob in the bunker area for example.

There is now way to reload then destroy it and build a new one. So dont lower the ammo plz.

There is enough shoveling in this version

there is not a military in the world that can fire a tow to a chopper flying... i would like to change this. Maybe with lase inside the tow to lock only armors. i dont know if this its possible, any solution will be great.

Maybe if AA missiles weren't so useless there would be less incentive to use a TOW.

dtacs wrote:Did you even bother to read the thread?

The problem here is not the TOWs explosive package, its the ease at which the operator can take out a moving helicopter. From my knowledge, the user must guide the TOW from its launcher onto the target and track it till missile impact.

Imagine doing that with one of these things on a chopper going at what, 100 km/h?

Yes. Of course I bloody did. To me it reads like this:-

"I just got owned by X weapon X number of times, which is total bull****! I'm l337! Its soo OP! Nerf plx!

Its definetly not my fault that I had/was 1) Picked a terrible LZ close to a fixed enemy position rather than choosing a safe one and letting my passengers walk a bit further. 2) flying over fortified enemy positions in an unarmed aircraft. 3) conducting an attack on a fortified position in a recon aircraft and failed to properly prioritise my targets"

Additionally, it seems entirely inconcevable to you lot complaining that the TOW operators used some skill like, oh, I don't know working with a spotter and leading thier targets, enabling them to make the kill.

Flying helos isn't the only skill in PR, you know.

Everyone keeps complaining about how fast someone can turn the TOW around to keep aiming a chopper.
With it being controlled by the mouse one can just change their sensitivity on the fly and they can aim really quickly.

How about to stop this we make the TOW's controlled by the WASD keys like the AT Cannons on Yamalia and Fools Road. This will limit how fast everybody can rotate the TOW. Sure, it isn't perfect for a guided missle however tanks in PR (in my experience) are usually static targets if they are firing on you so you should have no problem tracking those who are attacking you.

'[R-MOD wrote:Bob_Marley;1316531']
Its definetly not my fault that I had/was 1) Picked a terrible LZ close to a fixed enemy position rather than choosing a safe one and letting my passengers walk a bit further. 2) flying over fortified enemy positions in an unarmed aircraft. 3) conducting an attack on a fortified position in a recon aircraft and failed to properly prioritise my targets"

Additionally, it seems entirely inconcevable to you lot complaining that the TOW operators used some skill like, oh, I don't know working with a spotter and leading thier targets, enabling them to make the kill.

Flying helos isn't the only skill in PR, you know.

The TOW has such a far reaching range that you don't need to be anywhere near the enemy position to be in danger. Often I have seen Blackhawks go down from ridiculous distances since the TOW can see them through the fog.

This discussion isn't about the LB's getting hit by TOWs, its the fact that fully armed attack helicopters with speeds of 100km/h+ are being shot down by an M151 that looks like it would take longer than 1 second to revolve around*.

It is inconceivable mate, there is no way a TOW operator IRL would be able to lead a chopper flying that fast and hit it. PR doesn't take into account heat, wind resistance and all that jazz. It doesn't take a trained operator on the M151/M220 to know that that is impossible.

Plus I'm sure during the training they are told not to waste such an expensive missile with such a small amount of chance that it will hit.

* = an excellent tactic to avoid being hit by snipers or ground fire is to turn up sensitivity (I have a G9 mouse) and spin around really fast. I can do about 3 revolutions in one second on the highest setting. It also allows you to scan 360 degrees quickly. Realistic isn't it?

dtacs wrote:* = an excellent tactic to avoid being hit by snipers or ground fire is to turn up sensitivity (I have a G9 mouse) and spin around really fast. I can do about 3 revolutions in one second on the highest setting. It also allows you to scan 360 degrees quickly. Realistic isn't it?

Ford_Jam wrote:How about to stop this we make the TOW's controlled by the WASD keys like the AT Cannons on Yamalia and Fools Road. This will limit how fast everybody can rotate the TOW. Sure, it isn't perfect for a guided missle however tanks in PR (in my experience) are usually static targets if they are firing on you so you should have no problem tracking those who are attacking you.

Point proven

dtacs wrote: Realistic isn't it?

Nope.

Niether is flying a helicopter without pedal controls or having airbases built less than 4 kilometers away from each other.

Key term - engine limitations.

This discussion isn't about the LB's getting hit by TOWs, its the fact that fully armed attack helicopters with speeds of 100km/h+ are being shot down by an M151 that looks like it would take longer than 1 second to revolve around*.

No, this thread is about butthurt pilots trying to get all possible threats removed - afterall, they've spent so long honing thier skills and then these ground pounders come along and dare to shoot them down! Honestly, the cheek of it!

Seriously, this is just like the complaints about tanks being too effective against helicopters, deployed SAWs or AAVs being used on infantry - someone gets killed by a method they consider "cheap" then make a thread about it demanding it be nerfed, cos, you know, it'd be far too much effort to actually play the game as it is and, shock horror, try to overcome a challenge.

everyone, it might be more productive to talk about game dynamics ONLY, rather than character assassinations.

I think one way of making attack helicopters less suceptble to TOWs would be to use the Combined arms hellfire method

and probably helis would have more of a chance if the speed at which they gain altitude was increased as well

rudd in CA can you see lases through terrian so you can shoot the hellfires over hills etc.?

not iirc....

killonsight95 wrote:rudd in CA can you see lases through terrian so you can shoot the hellfires over hills etc.?

No. However it may be possible to enable LOAL (such as the bombs in jets).

In CA the GLTD has little use as all ground vehicles have lazer targets coded on them already so that firing on the move in tanks, IFVs, and helicopters is possible (they aren't 'painted' however like the lazer boxes).

Might be interesting to give the GLTD Heat boxes rather than lazer ones, which could be visible to the helicopter and useful for painting targets.

'[R-MOD wrote:Bob_Marley;1316531']Its definetly not my fault that I had/was 1) Picked a terrible LZ close to a fixed enemy position rather than choosing a safe one and letting my passengers walk a bit further. 2) flying over fortified enemy positions in an unarmed aircraft. 3) conducting an attack on a fortified position in a recon aircraft and failed to properly prioritise my targets"

You failed to read his first properly because you didn't see how he did prioritize his target. He took the anti-aircraft down first not the Anti-Tank missle. Are you saying that he shouldn't have worried about the thing that has 1 role and 1 role only to kill him? I would say that he prioritized his targets fine.

Just because someone gets shot down doesn't mean the LZ is terrible btw. On maps where the view distance is 1000 m, how do you expect the infantry to walk that in a useful time? Sometimes you have to get closer which will make you shot down easier but when you use all the precations like staying low, flaring, never flying in a straight line, and using objects as cover you shouldn't get killed by an AT missle 900m away when you are flying at full speed.

Everything I have read about the TOW says it is only used against low and slow helicopters, not ones going full speed and turning and not ones high in the air. If the TOW is left this effective against helicopters the stationay AA May aswell be remvoed because noone is going to use it when you can take out a helicopter moving at any speed or direction with no warning.

chrisweb89 wrote:You failed to read his first properly because you didn't see how he did prioritize his target. He took the anti-aircraft down first not the Anti-Tank missle. Are you saying that he shouldn't have worried about the thing that has 1 role and 1 role only to kill him? I would say that he prioritized his targets fine.

Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt there, he's still moaning about the fact that he was shot down when attacking an FB protected by at least two weapons that can easily blast him out of the sky in a recon bird. Additionally, he calls it a "strafing run" which is just asking to get shot down in any bird. Additionally, he stated he fired all his hydras at the SAM position, there was no reason he couldn't spare a couple for the TOW (unless he's as bad at helicopter gunnery as me)

chrisweb89 wrote:Just because someone gets shot down doesn't mean the LZ is terrible btw. On maps where the view distance is 1000 m, how do you expect the infantry to walk that in a useful time?

Its called foreward planning mate - it takes what, fifteen minutes for infantry to cross 1km in PR? They're still plenty useful. Additionally, even on maps with 1K view distances a smart flight plan can get you closer than that without putting you right in an obvious hot zone.

chrisweb89 wrote:Sometimes you have to get closer which will make you shot down easier but when you use all the precations like staying low, flaring, never flying in a straight line, and using objects as cover you shouldn't get killed by an AT missle 900m away when you are flying at full speed.

Why? If someone has got the skill to hit you with an ATGM when you're flying low, using cover and jinking all over the shop, why should be be denied that kill?

You're right, of course you shouldn't get shot down, but if you're unlucky enough to be flying through a good TOW gunner's kill zone, well, hard luck. It happens that way sometimes.

chrisweb89 wrote:Everything I have read about the TOW says it is only used against low and slow helicopters, not ones going full speed and turning and not ones high in the air.

Due to engine limitations every helo in PR is well within acceptable range, the longest distances available just about reach a quater of the TOW's effective range.

chrisweb89 wrote:If the TOW is left this effective against helicopters the stationay AA May aswell be remvoed because noone is going to use it when you can take out a helicopter moving at any speed or direction with no warning.

Yup, because fixed wing aircraft are absolutely no threat at all, right?

This is going nowhere, you can shot down helo with TOW, actualy, you can shot down helicopter with anything, just like IRL, there is not many chopper that would sustain a TOW, or a SAM or a 30mm rounds, so just live with it.

Adaptation is the key.

But TOWs dominating EVERYTHING the enemy can throw at you is not the key.

I Mean in real life pair these up and tell me who would win.


AH1Z Cobra Vs Tow :::: '

In PR Tow wins if cobra cant see it. But In real life Cobra has range domination by so much that the Tow is like firing a pistol at the cobra.



Range Domination: That is the biggest problem in PR. Everybody has The same range or close to it. So it changes the gameplay. So Adding a Tow that can pwn everything and i mean everything is fucking this mod up.

@Marley The last point about the AA being almost useless was more directed towards maps without any fixed wing, which is pretty much all of them or at the server I play at the only layout played much. People just don't like bombs dropping from jets they can't see I geuss. The fact is that most of the time I would rather have an AT missle to shoot down a chopper because of the no lock advantage which is because of how aircraft have to operate in PR and what an AT missle can do when looking straight up.

Stealth remember the LAZER! Get Forward observer to laser the target, pop up from cover bam, down you go again. Simples. Don't expect to take out a fob when it's defences are up just on your own, in a helicopter.