Project Reality Forums

Gazz you know I am a mumble man!

I see Rudds point, but with the hopeful summer rush coming up it would certainly be nice to have the maximum of mumble use at that period. At the same time, if mumble is not pushed a bit people who have it don't use it (been seeing that lots lately). Any idea if a new version will appear before the summer, or if TS3 works now use that? I don't care if it's Mumble, Ventrilo or TS anything that everyone uses with positional is good.

What we really need is a decent server with non mumble kicks when full, if the TW is good that is enough motivation for players to join in. For that we need an effort from all the mumblemen to make it work, just imagine if alot of the mumble crowd were able to seed and get a decent server going for just two weeks that'd be a great start.

For one thing jonney vanilla mumble 1.2 features whispers, which could be a very powerful tool, as well as being something that alot of fans of Teamspeak really want (for various reasons)

I assume the next version of mumble integrates the latest features of vanilla mumble, so advertising a more comprehensive VOIP program would be more effective than advertising the current mumble as well as any other features PR mumble 0.whatever may feature.

Mumble is fantastic imo, I love it. But I do work around its current limitations like no whispers, and some people just arent willing to do that.

The TG Mumble thread is very interesting about what people don't like about Mumble, If some of these issues could be solved that'd bring in more people:

SPAM - not hard to solve...Mute besides IMO alot less these days
Aircraft - No vertical positional going out of bounds unlinks it.
Team/SL channels - No hassle for me but many complain about that.

I wonder if it would be more prudent to use TS3 (I think it has 3D positional), plus people are generally far more familiar with TS than with Mumble, plus if PRARMA is going that way? Obviously I know bugger all about that sort of thing.

Tbh I don't know what the whispers thingy is for anyway....

Whisper

You can now set up one-sided whispers. This will redirect your voice to a set of players or channels. The possibilities are fairly large; for example, you can whisper to "everyone in my parent channel, and all channels linked to it, that are a member of the @admin group". You can whisper to as many different "targets" as you want at the same time. The picture you see on the left is the icon indicating that a player is whispering to you.

Ah I see sounds awesome for PR. As long as it can be set up to not alt tab everytime. But yes the potential to use that for squad - squad comms or squad - CO, that would cut down on unnecessary comms in the SL channels.

Maybe you guys need to really understand why the vast majority of people don't like/use mumble, rather than keep going on about how great it is. Then perhaps this information could be used to improve the system. We all use computers to play this mod and saying that it's too complicated for some people just doesn't cut it for me.

I personally think it's a great tool in principle but whenever I've given it a go I find that it's the people who use it not mumble itself that puts me off.

I'm a grown man and no offence to anyone,but I don't want to hear some whiny voice constantly telling me things I don't need to know. I also, like a lot of people use ventrilo to talk to clanmates and can get along just fine using ingame text to talk to others.
I also believe that seasoned players can work out just fine what's needed where and who's dying where just by reading the map and acting accordingly.

These are just my opinions, but it might be a good idea to get feedback from people who don't use it to help your cause.

One last thing. I've noticed that on several occasions on this forum I see people saying stuff like "You can't possibly play PR as well without mumble as you can with" Again it's just my opinion but this kind of statement smells of elitism and is divisive rather than cohesive and will probably just get people's backs up.

PLODDITHANLEY wrote:I wonder if it would be more prudent to use TS3 (I think it has 3D positional)

It does not have positional audio. You can set up your friends in a 3d audio system so that you can differentiate between them based on the position, but it does not have positional audio that is derived from the game.

Tartantyco wrote:It does not have positional audio. You can set up your friends in a 3d audio system so that you can differentiate between them based on the position, but it does not have positional audio that is derived from the game.

I think it needs a pluggin, but someone has to make it.

heres a simple solution...

instead of all the elitists hitting it up on the TG mumble , why not spread out to other servers and encourage mumble use. If all you ...people done this for a week im sure you would see a nice increase in users.

smiley wrote:Maybe you guys need to really understand why the vast majority of people don't like/use mumble.

So that's why any server that promotes mumble has such a large user base? You do understand that you actually have to substantiate claims like the one you're making for them to be of any value, right?

One last thing. I've noticed that on several occasions on this forum I see people saying stuff like "You can't possibly play PR as well without mumble as you can with" Again it's just my opinion but this kind of statement smells of elitism and is divisive rather than cohesive and will probably just get people's backs up.

e·lite
   /ɪˈlit, eɪˈlit/ Show Spelled[ih-leet, ey-leet] Show IPA
–noun
1.
(often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.


I'm okay with that. The fact of the matter is that you can't play PR as well without mumble as you can with it, and elitism isn't bad, exclusion is.

crAck_sh0t wrote:heres a simple solution...

instead of all the elitists hitting it up on the TG mumble , why not spread out to other servers and encourage mumble use. If all you ...people done this for a week im sure you would see a nice increase in users.

You need help from server admins. The problem isn't telling people about mumble, the problem is getting a lot of people on a certain server to use it together. If I go to Swiss Reality and tell people in my squad "Hey, you should get mumble, blah blah blah" and one or two people get it and then jump on the server that's not going to do anything. They can only talk to themselves, they might be on different teams, different places of the map, different servers, in different time zones, etc. The only way mumble functions is if it's adopted by a community(TG) or promoted by one(RT).

The entire point of mumble that makes it so powerful and makes it so unique, positional audio, also requires its mass adoption on a specific server, otherwise it is simply a glorified TS or Vent. It needs to be promoted by servers and the PR team(Word of mouth and individual promotion helps as well, but on its own it will do nothing).

smiley wrote:One last thing. I've noticed that on several occasions on this forum I see people saying stuff like "You can't possibly play PR as well without mumble as you can with" Again it's just my opinion but this kind of statement smells of elitism and is divisive rather than cohesive and will probably just get people's backs up.

I agree with the rest of your observations about the problem being the users, not the tool.

The statement may seem elitist due to wording but the underlying reasoning is correct if the end result is not: Positional audio allows for much more effective teamwork between squads. Sure, using mumble doesn't guarantee this but it adds such great opportunities for teamwork that it really does increase the ability to work as a team in a fast and clear manner.

The 'mumble mumble' and taunting players are the audio equivalent of unskilled pilots and people in tanks who drive straight at enemy TOWs, using the same tools available for teamwork in a counterproductive way.

PLODDITHANLEY wrote:What we really need is a decent server with non mumble kicks when full, if the TW is good that is enough motivation for players to join in. For that we need an effort from all the mumblemen to make it work, just imagine if alot of the mumble crowd were able to seed and get a decent server going for just two weeks that'd be a great start.

After a few server problems, PMC will be getting back on track this weekend if all goes to plan. Check the PMC forums on Friday for an announcement about the relaunch and planned events/themed nights.

Tartantyco wrote:So that's why any server that promotes mumble has such a large user base? You do understand that you actually have to substantiate claims like the one you're making for them to be of any value, right?




e·lite
   /ɪˈlit, eɪˈlit/ Show Spelled[ih-leet, ey-leet] Show IPA
–noun
1.
(often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.


I'm okay with that. The fact of the matter is that you can't play PR as well without mumble as you can with it, and elitism isn't bad, exclusion is.

Thank you Tartan for showing me exactly why my opinions are what they are. I'm not the one going on about how mumble needs advertising you lot are.
I also posted out of a genuine desire to maybe help out and which you of course decided was an antagonistic stance. It's this kind of defensive attitude when I wasn't relaying any kind of real criticism just joining in a thread that only further alienates people.Well done.


And as for substantiating my claims,no I don't. In fact I don't have to do anything you want
They are my opinions and therefore of value to me Mr high and mighty.

So any server that promotes mumble use has a large user base? where is your substantiated data for that? or do your own rules not apply to you?(And please don't cite TG as an example as they had a large user base way before mumble)

You know maybe if people spent a little less time picking apart quite innocent posts and more time actually trying to communicate properly instead of trying to make themselves look smart on the internet(which to put it in a way you will understand)"Is just fail" Then we'd all get along a little better.

So lets start by seeing if you can:

More people use other voice programs than use mumble...... agree?/disagree?
Could there possibly be other reasons for them not using mumble than those already stated?
Are people such as yourself prepared to even discuss the fact that a lot of people don't like mumble?
Are you prepared to substantiate this claim with proven data? "the fact of the matter is that you can't play PR as well without mumble as you can with it"

Are you prepared to substantiate this claim with proven data? "elitism isn't bad, exclusion is."
And talking of exclusion you promote that every time you reply to a post with the attitude you have.

smiley wrote:
So any server that promotes mumble use has a large user base? where is your substantiated data for that? or do your own rules not apply to you?(And please don't cite TG as an example as they had a large user base way before mumble)

*chiming in*

Reality Teamwork and Project Mumble Community.

AlexanderBond006 wrote:I personally think mumble is great, although it really only works when a server enforces it's use (anything below 80% of people using it makes it rather pointless).

I sure thought TG only ran about 50% and it is still very useful at that level since it is likely at least one person in a squad will be able to talk to blues.

I personally think mumble is great, although it really only works when a server enforces it's use (anything below 80% of people using it makes it rather pointless).

back in iGi we proved that if 4 squad leaders are on mumble you just pwn everything in front of you. (this was before mumble started being used in PR. We were able to work together flawlessly without having a constant radio chatter since 2 SLs near eachother could talk without interrupting the coms of the other 2 squad leaders.

Mumble works with few or many, many is better, but few still works well.

I have all the substantiation I need in this very thread, smiley.

snooggums wrote:I agree with the rest of your observations about the problem being the users, not the tool.

The statement may seem elitist due to wording but the underlying reasoning is correct if the end result is not: Positional audio allows for much more effective teamwork between squads. Sure, using mumble doesn't guarantee this but it adds such great opportunities for teamwork that it really does increase the ability to work as a team in a fast and clear manner.

The 'mumble mumble' and taunting players are the audio equivalent of unskilled pilots and people in tanks who drive straight at enemy TOWs, using the same tools available for teamwork in a counterproductive way.

Snoogums I don't disagree with you at all mate and in fact I would like to see more mumble use on my clanserver(UKWF) as we have a very large non mumble user base.We have a lot of very good players play there but we also suffer from the same problems that most servers suffer from eg. people that cannot play and read the chat at the same time.

It's the main reason I jumped in this thread because despite what Mr tartantyco perceives I have a vested interest in trying to continue to improve gameplay on our server, and I don't think it's as simple as just saying "everyone get on mumble now!"

I will repeat myself when i say that mumble as a tool is a great thing, but surely as it's user based then individual people will affect it's performance.

Here's an offer to all you mumblers. If you want to spread it's use then come on to our server and show the public in large how effective it is and help us to promote it.
I think that actively doing this and getting to know other server providers and talking to them and helping them work it out would be far more beneficial than running an ad campaign and also would be directly beneficial to the PR community as a whole.

We as clan members get used to being in our comfort zone of ventrilo/teamspeak so come and help us work with it.


If anyone is interested in doing this then drop by our website and I'll set you up with a vent account so we can discuss it.


@ Tartan that's about all I expected from you.

Gaffertape wrote:*chiming in*

Reality Teamwork and Project Mumble Community.

Never ran at the same time and were for all intents and purposes the same server.

smiley wrote:Never ran at the same time and were for all intents and purposes the same server.

Yes, PMC was created after RT closed down to fill the void.

I'm not sure what your point is?