Project Reality Forums

'[R-DEV wrote:dbzao;1331846']The new marker system make it much easier to do CAS without text/audio communication.

If both the SL and the Pilot use what they are given in terms of comm rose options, it can be done without writing/saying a single word.

But please don't do that, without saying a single word about the type of target and stuff or asking when they should lase CAS is never nearly effective and personally unless I have some more info like what it is, when for them to relase since usually I'm not in range of mark when it goes up I won't come in, because I just don't want to lose the aircraft or waste the ammo if I don't know its reliable.

If possible when asking for CAS you should first talk to the pilot, give the approximate grid and target and put the marker on the map. Then when they are inbound or ask for a laze, laze it and don't keep spamming lase until it blows up. This last part is very important, if the aircraft is inbound and the lase isn't sticking either tell the aircraft to abort or lase near the target and you might get a kill, but don't relase when they are firing their weapons.

This workis best threw mumble or TS but can be done in team chat, you just need a little bit of trust between the pilot and the guy on the ground, the more succesful and aa free hits that happen between you both, the more trusting each other are.

I played around two hours ago on karbala and people don't understand that the helicopters can see laser markers and there were CAS marks here there and everywhere but no lasers luckily enough my Sl placed accurate attack markers and I got what was asked but people still don't mark with a LASER ( the green box )

I do call it in, but from experiences most people when they call it in get our CAS killed by AA so it is never available.

Also i think people would call it in more if they didnt care about getting more kills (even one more) before dying.

If you can't kill it, leave it alone. - Or call in air support.

If I can count on the pilot to hit the marker, I'll call it in. Easiest way to go about it, is lase it (CLICK ONCE, you wouldn't believe how many people forget that) if its a vehicle pop down then pop up to check the lase stuck, put an attack marker on it for range (doesn't have to be in that order, you could set attack marker then left click to lase), then get cover, look at the marker, move toward it a little, then use commo rose to set the distance and munition type. Thats the .9 way, so obviously, if you feel a bomb would suit the target, LGB, missles = LGM, etc. Just think of what the pilot would want to know. Infact, while you are in cover, you could even type to the pilot what threats there are, which could change his mind and save the CAS-er-copter/craft, what it is you are lasing, and so on and so forth and forth. Its not that hard to type. With a commander, its even easier!

Just remember, if you hold down the lase button, you deserve the air burst directly over your head when the bomb/missile hits the lase mid-flight.

But other than that, CAS is really great.

Jonny wrote:I remember being told by the leader of my clans air section that CAS requests should be rarely called in, and that infantry targets should not be called in due to excessive risk to the aircraft. I havn't considered any use of attack aircraft sinse then, if a targeted infantry squad with no nearby armour can be a risk when firing from beyond visual range then whats the point?

I have always thought that CAS should be used far more often, though. IMO, CAS should be requested on pretty much every target you come across, not just armour or anti-armour but even infantry squads. On one side, this gives the pilots some damn good intel on enemy movements even if they deny most CAS requests and only go for high-value targets. On the other, you could get the same intel and also have the aircraft on attack runs for the whole round, so engaging most things the team comes across and indirectly saving more tickets than they loose by being shot down.

What happens on most public servers seems to be that the aircraft are just to their own devices until somebody really needs them, then being given insufficient intel about the location and flight path. You occasionaly get some good use, but I think that tends to be intermittant and its area limited. Even rarer is the use of aircraft for temporary suppression of a fortified area before being told to cease fire as someone else gets close enough to destroy the target. [shameless plug]Hopefully mumble can change that, though.[/shameless plug]

The problem with this is that CAS is just TOO easily shot down.

ALWAYs and accurately.

If I come into contact, my first thought is "is cas up?"

I mark the target for grid reference, I give the pilot intel on that grid and the target and than I laze. ALWAYS marking the AA first if it's there.

Pilot receives: "CAS I have a target (id tell them the target type) in G2K1 (or whatever), Lazing now."

It blows me away that so many squad leaders will pass up the chance of calling it in.

It's really just quite ignorant to not use it. You don't need mumble or a commander. Ya just need a competent SL and a competent pilot.

lol, the pilot doesnt even need to be that good, the targets freakin lazed and with a jet is just about guaranteed to hit it from cloud level with an LGB. Now heli's are a little different and require an at least slightly proficient pilot.

Those who dont use it, you're noobs, go play vanilla.

I call it in all the time. grids, keypads, lazes, the whole works. Only about 10% of the request are ever answered by the pilots though.

Hunt3r wrote:The problem with this is that CAS is just TOO easily shot down.

We have a whole thread basically praising how effective CAS is then we have one black sheep nay sayer, pattern anyone?

Hunt3r wrote:The problem with this is that CAS is just TOO easily shot down.

only if moving slowly, which is a problem since you have to guide your hellfires, however as we've already talked about in teh helicopter thread, a click and forget system would fix this.

[R-DEV]dbzao wrote:The new marker system make it much easier to do CAS without text/audio communication.

If both the SL and the Pilot use what they are given in terms of comm rose options, it can be done without writing/saying a single word.

yeah. ur right. i did a little bit of CAS squadleading (me as spotter and handling comms obviously) and i think:

if i don't know what the CAS is supposed to hit, if i don't know if the guy can lase in the first place, if i don't know if that cannon attack marker is really an indicator that they just want a spray of the area, if i can't trust SLs to secure that jets/choppers don't get endangered i won't respond to that request unless it has been clarified.

am i right or wrong on that? i don't know tbh.

It's rare to see SL's that use their excellent markers, yes they can be tricky but full info is here:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f26-pr-bf2-bugs/79345-0909-sl-spotting-markers-dont-reliably-place.html

To answer the OP 'all the time' after checking for AA.

Recently I was US on Barracuda, we were just trying to hold the bridge (up to docks NE) till the end of the game, luckily i had some top CAS on mumble, so I found a hole sat in it and non stop was getting the south of the bridge CAS'ed.
The squad was very happy seeing the Huey coming in again and again, the CAS team was happy having constant well described targets, and lastly I was happy because for me that is the high point of PR, the teamwork with real people doing their best, If we didn't have CAS we were without a doubt all dead, we were 1.5 squads I think there were 3 or 4 Chinese squads attacking.

Joker I think depends where and who you're playing with (Muttrah is heli death - Kashan isn't).

Or go CO, that way you control the CAS completely (insert evil laugh).

I love it. Just don't trust LBs much at Karbala, you know?

About planes, though, they are great, and Cobras at Muttrah...

TomDackery wrote:If you can't kill it, leave it alone. - Or call in air support.

If I can count on the pilot to hit the marker, I'll call it in. Easiest way to go about it, is lase it (CLICK ONCE, you wouldn't believe how many people forget that) if its a vehicle pop down then pop up to check the lase stuck, put an attack marker on it for range (doesn't have to be in that order, you could set attack marker then left click to lase), then get cover, look at the marker, move toward it a little, then use commo rose to set the distance and munition type. Thats the .9 way, so obviously, if you feel a bomb would suit the target, LGB, missles = LGM, etc. Just think of what the pilot would want to know. Infact, while you are in cover, you could even type to the pilot what threats there are, which could change his mind and save the CAS-er-copter/craft, what it is you are lasing, and so on and so forth and forth. Its not that hard to type. With a commander, its even easier!

Just remember, if you hold down the lase button, you deserve the air burst directly over your head when the bomb/missile hits the lase mid-flight.

But other than that, CAS is really great.

Exactly, and remember that Squad Leaders of the CAs squad that are lasing DO NOT need to use .9's marker system, but instead just directly place an attack marker on the target and ask for a specific munitions type. It speeds up the process considerably.

Unrelated note: Tom come lase for me again, I miss reliable spotters who always have lots of sexy targets for me D:.

As you can see the main issue here is either one of these:

1. Pilots don't trust the SLs on the ground calling it right, so they don't attack.
2. SLs on the ground don't trust the Pilots to do it right, so they don't request.

So there you go... It's mainly a player thing, and like everything in life, training will get you better. I only suggest people try be a little more open minded, give the pilots a chance, and pilots give SLs a chance. If at least one attack goes right, you will get many more.

I can honestly say that sometimes I asked for dummy CAS requests on safe positions just to see if that unknown CAS pilot knew what he was doing. I know, it's a little wasteful, but if he can't even do that, and go back and rearm, he's not going to be useful much longer.

About the "not talking" thing I said, I really believe it can be done and I have done it many times. With the new comm rose options you are asking for specific armament (bombs, laser guided missiles, cannons and missiles/hydras) and it's expected that you know why you are calling these weapons and for what type of targets. Why does CAS *really* needs to know what's there if you are calling for something specific? Of course, information is always better, but there's no real need most of the time as you are just asking for a bomb at that marker.

Coordinates don't need to be typed as the map marker does it for you as well as the armament needed to do the job. The pilot can give you an indication he's coming in by using the "On the Way" comm rose option, and then you can reset the laser if needed. Clicking only once is how the weapon works, and if you don't know that, you need to read the manual and do some training. Like using vehicles or using other PR weapons, you need to learn how they work, so no excuses there.

I have some ideas of additional comm rose options to help with the communication without spamming mumble/chat in a way to help standarize this kind of requests. I think we have improved the in-game systems a lot, so right now the biggest barrier are the players.

I always laze as sniper. Nothing more satisfying than watching the fireworks

[R-DEV]dbzao wrote: training will get you better.
(...)
you need to read the manual and do some training. Like using vehicles or using other PR weapons, you need to learn how they work, so no excuses there.

Not to be too pushy but: BRING BACK THE TRAINING MODE! ;d

ontopic: As I rather do CAS than spotting i am always happy to see people calling for CAS. The more requests the better. As it was mentioned: there is no overkill in pr. If inf wants a bomb on the face of enemy sniper: so be it. The only wasted bomb is the one that you are forced to land with or the one that is not dropped.

alec89 wrote:lol, most of the time the chopper or fighter aircraft pilot does not even care or pays attention when I laze an enemy FOB that has an AT and AA nests in Kashan or Silent eagle. Or armored vehicles. They just fly around the map and minute later I check they're downed...... So most recently I do not bother lazing. ONLY rarely there are competent pilots that work with the team, hard to find such people these days

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Correction, there are some good pilots still left in PR. Took out 2 tanks today by lazing on kashan. Took the mig 29 pilot 30 seconds to destroy them. Beautiful hits with LG missiles )

iv call in CAS on anything that i feel my squad is unable to kill or get around to get to are goal. but it is always fun to call that CAS from a A10 on that sniper.

oh ya a little something nice i noted from the MEC attack helo is it cannon is really nice my gunner pot a 5 round into a APC and tank and killed there crew with out destroying them.

it depends.

usually i call in cas if the area is known as aa clear.

in the heat of the moment, for example if we r beeing overrun at bunkers (kashan),
i ll ask the pilots to attack those grids on their own risk.