[R-CON]Rudd wrote:I'd rather leave the area attacks be, but additions could be interesting.
for example Sniperdog told me about an idea he had, where you have a artillery spotter vehicle, it fires artillery shells that come from 5000m behind it, so you could say have 2 mags of 10 rounds, takes 120seconds to reload a mag, so in gameplay terms the vehicle would guide in 2 barrages and then return to main, reload and come back.
this would also be a way of bringing MRLS strikes ingame I think.
ok, but how u think it should work ? like a lasertarget ? so u have to get visual?
or more like: i see this attack marker and know there must be something, but can't see it right now cause fogofwar, so i ll just point at that like spay n pay ?
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-21 13:26
by kanonator
killonsight95 wrote:i l;ike that idea, however i think that if we do shorten artillary timer maybe there should be a ticket cost, maybe 10-15 per strike
This was exactly what I was thinking. The commander will have to decide whether or not the extra push his troops will have because of the strike is worth the points he'll have to spend on calling it in. This way, the commander plays a very important decision-maker role in game (just like how commanders have to make important decisions IRL). He can always deny a strike if he feels it's not necessary. I'll expect to see more commanders, as well as more squad-commander communication. And a lot more drama over VOIP as the SL's will try as best as they can to convince the commander that it is absolutely necessary he approve a strike. More shouting+screaming in the heat of the firefight is always a plus (for me at least).
And to make a further suggestion to the barrage system right now. I don't know too well (as I can't quite recall properly) but whenever I get killed by a strike it's often out of nowhere. Like I'm happily defending my post and next thing you know there are shells pounding around me. I dunno, I think a little warning noise will counter the added frequency of strikes (assuming the suggestion is implemented). For example, a few seconds before the rounds will land you can faintly hear the rounds falling from the sky as they make that eeeooooouuuuu sort of noise. I can just imagine being on the assaulting team, witnessing the enemy run out of their area in fear that they'll be killed. As well as being on the defending team, screaming over VOIP: OMFG GTFO OF HERE!!!!!! I DONT WANNA DIIIIIEEEE! I CANT BELIEVE THEY SPENT TICKETS JUST TO KILL US WE MUST BE PRETTY DAMN GOOD DEFENDERS haha, **** sorry if it's a long post guys. wow I got pretty enthusiastic over this! haha
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-21 13:36
by snooggums
I would like a much lighter anti personnel type strike on a shorter reload for infantry type maps, maybe a 20 minute reload and the damage is like sending 10 or so grenadier grenades in a short group with a quicker request to strike time period but with more deviation.
More of a get heads down strike than a kill all in the location strike.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-21 20:52
by killonsight95
i would lvoe to see more than one type of strike on a map maybe 3:
a heavy - 20 tickets - 45 mins recharge
a light - 10 tickets - 20 mins recharge
smoke - 2 tickets - 10 mins recharge
but i'm not sure if it is possible i know i made a thread about it about 1 year ago and like said above would increase the amount of excitment for athe commander
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-21 22:21
by Hotrod525
boilerrat wrote:How often is artillery used IRl in a 32 v 32 situation?
more than you think, lets say a infantry patrol in Afghanistan, about 12 to 16 guyz, doing there task and then get engage by taliban hided behind mud wall, they do call Arty if they feel they need too.
How many taliban they where hided there ? may be a couple... 6 maximum, they receive more than 7 155MM H.E.F. round on them...
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 09:55
by arjan
Im all for shorter timers on mortars and artillery, like 15 minutes.
If you think of how fast you can move over the maps and such its all scaled down.
And like some people pointed out, artillery is used quite abit more than just a round in PR.
I think it would make the game more fun aswell, as people will get the immersion they are fighting on a battlefield.
As long its not like the bf2 arty, but more between 15/20 minutes i like the idea.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 10:24
by goguapsy
OK, I have a question. WHY do we need faster reloading artillery?
Please don't say because "it's realistic". I want to know gameplay-speaking. IMO it would become SUCH a spam if it reloaded THAT fast.
And if you guys wanna make it reload THAT fast, then make them weaker (along with a bit of ticket loss).
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 11:27
by lucky.BOY
Reminds me of one time on Fools Road, when we were as militia defending our last flag, the fortress, and the artillery came down on us. It was pretty a challenge to get there first, build a FOB, defend the hill and keep playing. Just an example of how area attack can improve gameplay.
Back on topic, i'm definitely against spaming area attacks, but i like the idea of commander having some arty available, but deciding if its worth using because of ticket cost. Would add some more responsibility to commander's job.
On the idea with spotting vehicles, don't take the control of area attacks out of commander's hands. It is similar to that idea of equiping planes with JDAM load, but now it wouldn't need a spotter... Thats not good. I'm not against MLRS at all, but give it to commander.
On other hand i like the idea of arming UAV with 1/2 hellfires, with could be used against high priority targets. And also make the UAV interceptable (Dunno if it is now, but i have never been shot down), to stop commander from using it as a attack force.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 11:37
by Tannhauser
Lighter, shorter, mortar-strikes with a shorter reloading time would be interesting.
Edit : NVM. Thanks Rudd.
We're not talking about an artillery barrage from what I understand, but about something like 3 or 5 shells of mortars thrown on a small concentrated area. I'd say 20min-25min is reasonable compared to artillery that takes about an hour to load.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 11:46
by Rudd
It won't work with insurgency. People will whine constatly because caches will be spammed with mortar-strikes and as much as it gets realistic, it's terrible for gameplay.
But it does take out grenade traps and such? Couple that with decimating infantry and what you have is "We're defending this cache, oh wait, we've all been blown up by a barrage, lets go defend another one now since this is a lost cause", and since it takes sides a good 15 minutes to ready up for another cache strike, there artillery is ready and up for the next one they want to take.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 12:37
by Brummy
Take cover..?
However, I think 15 minutes is too short as well for gameplay. 35 minutes for Artillery/Mortars would be good.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 12:51
by goguapsy
lucky.BOY wrote:On other hand i like the idea of arming UAV with 1/2 hellfires, with could be used against high priority targets. And also make the UAV interceptable (Dunno if it is now, but i have never been shot down), to stop commander from using it as a attack force.
The isn't doable because the UAV is a missile, and missiles can't shoot missiles, as far as I know.
Also, if we really were to add hellfires to the UAV, I'd rather have 1 or 2, not 1/2.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 12:57
by Web_cole
Brummy wrote:However, I think 15 minutes is too short as well for gameplay. 35 minutes for Artillery/Mortars would be good.
Yeah, I definitely think 15 minutes would be far too spammy.
killonsight95 wrote:i would love to see more than one type of strike on a map maybe 3:
a heavy - 20 tickets - 45 mins recharge
a light - 10 tickets - 20 mins recharge
smoke - 2 tickets - 10 mins recharge
snooggums wrote:I would like a much lighter anti personnel type strike on a shorter reload for infantry type maps, maybe a 20 minute reload and the damage is like sending 10 or so grenadier grenades in a short group with a quicker request to strike time period but with more deviation.
More of a get heads down strike than a kill all in the location strike.
I like the idea of having more than one type of strike on a map, like a heavy strike on a long recharge and maybe a light strike on a shorter recharge. Not sure about the whole ticket cost thing, that seems a bit too gamey to me.
Also, I think having smoke arty would be cool, as I think smoke is one of the most underused assets in the game. (not sure how realistic it would be though)
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 15:24
by Jaymz
Hotrod525 wrote:more than you think, lets say a infantry patrol in Afghanistan, about 12 to 16 guyz, doing there task and then get engage by taliban hided behind mud wall, they do call Arty if they feel they need too.
How many taliban they where hided there ? may be a couple... 6 maximum, they receive more than 7 155MM H.E.F. round on them...
That's the whole idea of tons of patrols that happen in Afghanistan. Go patro...get shot at...find cover...call artillery.
Also, in conventional warfare anyway, an artillery battery has to consider frequently relocating to avoid counter battery attacks. In Afghanistan, the enemy have no counter battery capabilities but in the majority of PR scenarios.....you get the point.
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 15:45
by sweedensniiperr
manual arty?
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 16:01
by Rudd
manual arty?
remember we can't have too many eyes off the front line and sitting in main pointing and clicking arty or whatever, so if manual arty was implemented it would have to be with a spotter vehicle like below.
It would also give recon vehicles more interest ingame
e.g. the BRDM could possibly be like this, make a duplicate vehicle, then add an extra bit of texture on so that it can be identified as a spotter vehicle, or use the BRDM support so that its only 1 man who can also do transport if necessary. <- teamwork orientated.
Originally Posted by [R-CON]Rudd View Post
I'd rather leave the area attacks be, but additions could be interesting.
for example Sniperdog told me about an idea he had, where you have a artillery spotter vehicle, it fires artillery shells that come from 5000m behind it, so you could say have 2 mags of 10 rounds, takes 120seconds to reload a mag, so in gameplay terms the vehicle would guide in 2 barrages and then return to main, reload and come back.
this would also be a way of bringing MRLS strikes ingame I think.
The M270 system can fire MFOM, MLRS Family Of Munition rockets and artillery missiles, which are manufactured and used by a number of countries. These include:
* M26 (United States): Rocket with 644 M77 Dual-Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions (DPICM) sub-munitions, range of 32 km.
o M26A1 (United States): Extended Range Rocket (ERR), with range of 45 km and using improved M85 submunitions.
o M26A2 (United States): As M26A1, but using M77 submunitions.
* M27 (United States): Completely inert training Launch Pod/Container to allow full loading cycle training.
* M28 (United States): Training rocket. M26 with three ballast containers and three smoke marking containers in place of submunition payload.
o M28A1 (United States): Reduced Range Practice Rocket (RRPR) with blunt nose. Range reduced to 9 km.
* XM29 (United States): Rocket with Sense and Destroy Armor (SADARM) submunitions. Not standardized.
* M30 (United States): Guided MLRS (GMLRS). A precision guided rocket, range over 60 km, in pre-production, with a standard load of 404 M85 submunitions.
o M31 (United States): Guided Unitary MLRS. Variant of the M30 with a unitary high-explosive warhead for use in urban and mountainous terrain.[5]
* M39 (United States): Army Tactical Missile System (Army TACMS), with a range of 97 km with 950 antipersonnel and antimateriel (APAM) M74 grenades.
* XM135 (United States): Rocket with binary chemical warhead (VX (nerve agent)). Not standardized.
* MGM-140A (United States): Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS). A large guided missile using the M270 launcher, with a variety of warheads.
Main article: MGM-140 ATACMS
* AT2 (Germany, UK, France): SCATMIN Rocket with 28 anti-tank mines and range of 38 km.
* PARS SAGE-227 F (Turkey): Experimental Guided MLRS (GMLRS) developed by TUBITAK-SAGE to replace the M26 rockets.
so either it'll be in the main base, another man will be off the front line or the commander will have to use it (the latter being preferable) as well as the whole vehicle having to be modelled despite everyone barely ever seeing it.
Alternative, give the approriate nations a Rocket strike instead of artillery when using their Recon vehicle to fire artillery as a parody of spotting. (as afaik you can't have actual rockets com in a dedicated server from offmap arty)
Re: Artilley changes
Posted: 2010-05-22 16:42
by HAAN4
Well my sugestion is to have 4 artilhary slots, of diferent weopows has well and diferent cooldows.
also, to shiet don't go out control for defecive players. because 4 artilharys may not look overpower in a 64 players round, but in 8 players this is just madness at all.
and so that keeps up, the couldown will continue the same, is just to the commander use they artilharys WHEN he need's it, instead. squads will just spot and call artilhary instead of figthing anyway.
I fully suport this sugestion, trough it must be done carefull. or otherwise it will suck the game for sure.
and i suport because in all my time i play PR, since 2 years, i has got killed by artilhary very few times, like autmost 3 or 4. so more artilhary is required and will wont hurt, not bad at all.
any military advisior will maybe go agaist my, because they actuly serve in iraque war, so art is't much needed there at all. because for each civilian is killed 10 more insurgents will come to shoot americans anyway. so artilhary only makes they strong. by the way. that is the reason why artilhary is't much used, but still used sometimes, so i am for retrive artilhary of insurgency, and puting more artilhary in AAS where it's truly used at all.
