Shotgun no longer to arrest armed insurgents

[Potilas]

Nothing wrong with shotgun legally kill civilian rule. After all its only weapon what can handle them at distance. 10ip for civi kill by shotgun is too generous reward. Make it 5ip and im happy.

[DeltaFart]

For those that wonder how good buck shot is

When used correctly inside about 60 yards, such a shot is quite possible. As far as power, 3 lethal hits with 00 buckshot are about equivalent to a shot with a 300 Winchester magnum. Three lethal hits are about average at the 60 yard mark, a

Source

60 yards = 54.86400 meters

But yeh, if that arrest function is being abused, it needs to be reworked I guess

[Psyrus]

Nothing wrong with shotgun legally kill civilian rule. After all its only weapon what can handle them at distance. 10ip for civi kill by shotgun is too generous reward. Make it 5ip and im happy.

That's not the point though... if you shoot any insurgent with the shotgun, you get +10 intel which is the issue

And boilerrat, I was referring to two different 'guns' in your inventory that you switch between to change rounds, not two firing modes.

[Ford_Jam]

"Arresting" an entire insurgent squad on Fallujah with buckshot is beyond hilarious.

But yeah, Psyrus has the right idea, the shotguns do need a little reworking for Insurgency as it just seems too easy, maybe even make shotguns as a whole less accurate.

[USMC scout sniper]

How DO you arrest insurgents with the shotgun?

[AdrwIvrsn]

Is there a way to simulate a non-lethal round's effect, such as temporarily locking the collaborator from moving or bleeding him if he does attempt to move (similar to a molotov cocktail's effect but it's harmless if you don't budge)? If he's in the water, he could either drown or count as an automatic legit kill or arrest, just as he does when in a vehicle.

For switching to the non-lethal round, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all the available weapon slots already filled up, so there is no way to put a second shotgun unless you made the shotgun his primary? If so, you could portray him chambering a non-lethal round just before firing, but that would cause him to always load one less shot to make room for loading the non-lethal round whenever needed. Does this go against military training?

[ZephyrDark]

Hmmm wierd... whenever I've hit a normal insurgent with a shotgun its hasn't given me a "You have arrested the insurgent" or whatever, nor when I have been an insurgent and shotty'd have I gotten the "arrested for helping the insurgency" message. Idk, I thought that if you hit a noncollaberator/armed insurgent with the shotgun it just killed them..

[Web_cole]

How DO you arrest insurgents with the shotgun?

Point and shoot

[Jigsaw]

Is there a way to simulate a non-lethal round's effect, such as temporarily locking the collaborator from moving or bleeding him if he does attempt to move (similar to a molotov cocktail's effect but it's harmless if you don't budge)? If he's in the water, he could either drown or count as an automatic legit kill or arrest, just as he does when in a vehicle.

For switching to the non-lethal round, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all the available weapon slots already filled up, so there is no way to put a second shotgun unless you made the shotgun his primary? If so, you could portray him chambering a non-lethal round just before firing, but that would cause him to always load one less shot to make room for loading the non-lethal round whenever needed. Does this go against military training?

The first part isn't possible on the BF2 engine and even if it were it would likely affect all players not just the civi.

Second part, yes all of the specialist's weapon slots are filled making it difficult to add any additional weapon slots for different shotgun ammo. Afaik it isn't against military policy to have several different ammunition types in fact i'd go as far to say that they actively would carry different types but as stated that would be impossible to simulate in-game accurately without using another weapon slot/players using their imagination.

[rushn]

.... shotgun... TAZERS???

YES!!!

[dtacs]

Hmmm wierd... whenever I've hit a normal insurgent with a shotgun its hasn't given me a "You have arrested the insurgent" or whatever, nor when I have been an insurgent and shotty'd have I gotten the "arrested for helping the insurgency" message. Idk, I thought that if you hit a noncollaberator/armed insurgent with the shotgun it just killed them..

You don't get the message for either side, the team simple gets the intel points without being told, or vice versa.

Thats the problem, as not many people know that you should run whenever you see an BLUFOR guy with a shotgun. Fighting is just stupid as its as bad as dying for helping the insurgency as a civilian.

[USMC scout sniper]

Point and shoot

Thanks I gotta go Hadji huntin' now.

[HAAN4]

Agreed, the faster thing we can do is to just retrive the shotgun arresting capability. but the idealogist thing is to allow the shotgun to make INSANE AMMOUNGHTS OF STUN AND INACURACY TO ANY INSURGENT and then someone arrest he. what is real in my point of vision.

[bad_nade]

Give engineers two weapon slots for shotgun: slugs and bean bags. Remove buckshot.

Make slugs mainly for breaching, but also leathal against any living target if hit. Thus, if an enemy is hit with a slug over a relatively short distance he gets killed (and I mean really killed, not arrested) no matter if he's an unarmed civilian or not. Penalties for ROE violations apply, of course.

Make second slot fire bean bags, that, when used against enemies, score as an arrest with appropriate intel points. Bean bags should not cause any damage to other objects and they should not have breaching capability either.

Both weapon types should have some amount of deviation and settle time.

These modifications would make combat engineers to rely on their M4's on combat situations instead of shotguns. They would maintain their capability to breach doors and arrest civilians, but as they would have to switch ammo for different tasks and stop moving before being able to fire accurately, they couldn't go guns blazing after anything they see anymore. Switching ammo would be necessary because slugs would be leathal against civilians. It would still be possible to arrest armed enemies using bean bags, but due to bean bag deviation and removal of buckshot, it would be very risky operation.

[AnimalMother.]

but the idealogist thing is to allow the shotgun to make INSANE AMMOUNGHTS OF STUN AND INACURACY TO ANY INSURGENT and then someone arrest he. what is real in my point of vision.

thats not a half bad idea actually, i'm sure it would be possible for the shotgun to provide this kind of effect. Should be able to tweak the suppression code to do this for the shotgun ammunition type, as i'm sure when surpression was first introduced 9mm didn't trigger the effects.



imo seperating two rounds for the specialist wouldn't work, or i don't understand fully what people are suggesting. Having the buckshot to kill them (+1ip) and then some beanbag round to 'arrest' (+10ip) however the end product is the same, the guy in front of you died. so why bother with the buckshot?

Buck shots arent for arresting

did you know before this, that it counted as arresting armed insurgents aswell as collaborators?


yes its unrealistic to arrest a civi with a buckshot, but for gameplay purposes i think its a sacrifice that can be made

It would still be possible to arrest armed enemies using bean bags, but due to bean bag deviation and removal of buckshot, it would be very risky operation.

but still you have enough people running around with it in the first place you need 5 hits to get the cache location still...

[HAAN4]

thats not a half bad idea actually, i'm sure it would be possible for the shotgun to provide this kind of effect. Should be able to tweak the suppression code to do this for the shotgun ammunition type, as i'm sure when surpression was first introduced 9mm didn't trigger the effects.



imo seperating two rounds for the specialist wouldn't work, or i don't understand fully what people are suggesting. Having the buckshot to kill them (+1ip) and then some beanbag round to 'arrest' (+10ip) however the end product is the same, the guy in front of you died. so why bother with the buckshot?



did you know before this, that it counted as arresting armed insurgents aswell as collaborators?


yes its unrealistic to arrest a civi with a buckshot, but for gameplay purposes i think its a sacrifice that can be made

what can we do, Rubber bullets? maybe hehehe

[AnimalMother.]

what can we do, Rubber bullets? maybe hehehe

If someone with some experience of Iraq/Afghan could shed some light on the use of such ammo types and the frequency of use.

[bad_nade]

If someone with some experience of Iraq/Afghan could shed some light on the use of such ammo types and the frequency of use.

It's hard to simulate fear of death in a video game. I would guess that in most cases if group of coalition soldiers point their weapons agains unarmed civilians, they can simply tell those civies what to do, instead of stunning them with bean bags/tazers/whatever. But in video game they must have some form of tool to stop them running away.

Ballsy moves do apply on the reality too, like stopping a column of chinese tanks just by standing in the middle of the road, but those persons represent tiny minority.

[bad_nade]

imo seperating two rounds for the specialist wouldn't work, or i don't understand fully what people are suggesting. Having the buckshot to kill them (+1ip) and then some beanbag round to 'arrest' (+10ip) however the end product is the same, the guy in front of you died. so why bother with the buckshot?

Buckshot is so easy to use because it's powerfull (one hit kill), it has no deviation or settle time and it fires 8 projectiles simultaneously. By replacing it with a slug that has only one projectile, some deviation and an average settle time, it would become much harder to kill anyone with it. Same would apply to bean bags too, but as civilians are unarmed, the time required for deviation to settle would not be question of life and death anymore. And if a civilian has armed support, you shouldn't be using shotgun at the first place.

[AnimalMother.]

Buckshot is so easy to use because it's powerfull (one hit kill), it has no deviation or settle time and it fires 8 projectiles simultaneously. By replacing it with a slug that has only one projectile, some deviation and an average settle time, it would become much harder to kill anyone with it Kill-kill or count as arrested?. Same would apply to bean bags too, but as civilians are unarmed, the time required for deviation to settle would not be question of life and death anymore Surely in game it does as you hit them and they drop. And if a civilian has armed support, you shouldn't be using shotgun at the first place.

comments in bold

with the bean bag round you're suggesting, does it arrest everyone or just civis? how much settle time does it have? more then the rifle?