Give Useable Sights to Door Gunners on Helicopters.

[Hitman.2.5]

but not a vulcan

M134D Vulcan, .

And what helicopter has a vulcan? u guys been playing MW2

Here is the GAU-2/GAU-17 M134 (minigun)


Here in the M61 Vulcan



The difference is the M134 uses an 7.62 round and the M61 Vulcan uses a 20mm PGU-28 round.

The M134 is used on helicopters for door guns or in Pods and on ships for close prox protection.

The M61 is a F-16, F-15, F-18, F-22 and F-35's Gun Also incorporated into the air defense system M163 PIVADS and the VADS (as seen in PR), only ever used on helicopters in an experimental concept. (and on MW2 in the blackhawks passenger space, dont know why they thought of that :/)

[Celestial1]

I think that overall door guns are unused now. I find this depressing, because they are unbearably awesome, and being able to drop people in close proximity to enemies while shooting them to bits with doorguns and circling afterward to keep the infantry alive while they get out of the open area... It just makes for a beautiful thought.

However, the lack of sights is only half of the problem, I think. The other part of it is the ease of overheating. Gun sights would come most handy to fire from further out, which would keep the helicopter safer, sure, but at that distance it is still hard to properly aim (reverse lead, not being able to see much of anyone at that distance...) and overheating comes extremely fast.

[Excavus]

Once more helicopters get door guns, they need sights.

[paracowboy]

I don't really see a reason for sights and thought that the blackhawk minigun was close to perfect before it was nerfed. I think that the ability to zoom adds a great deal to the effectiveness and being able to sit on the trigger for longer than 3 seconds gave you the ability to track targets with the tracers.

[Wo0Do0]

It is clear that miniguns or spooled guns do not have sights, and I perfectly agree with that. Giving sights to guns such as .50 cal would seem reasonable, if your justification for no sights are valid, then why not take off the sights for .50 cals on HMVs? or even Tanks? Since these slower moving vehicles would provide a better setting for middle-of-screen firing?

[Drunkenup]

The M61 is a F-16, F-15, F-18, F-22 and F-35's Gun Also incorporated into the air defense system M163 PIVADS and the VADS (as seen in PR), only ever used on helicopters in an experimental concept. (and on MW2 in the blackhawks passenger space, dont know why they thought of that :/)

The F-35 uses a GAU-22 or a 4 Barrel, 25mm version of the GAU-8, the same 5 barrel version is used on the AV-8 Harrier under the designation of GAU-12.

Yeah, Infinity Ward was being stupid with the Vulcan equipped Blackhawk, I don't even think the Blackhawk, or any sort of pintle mount could handle a full blown 4000 RPM M61.
Gosh I love pointing those things out.

To be honest, I think Door Guns should have larger tracers, to enhance aiming and target acquisition, and maybe add a bit more splash damage and maybe some deviation to help. Only optics if real life occasions call for them.

[SnipeHunt]

Trying to line up the sights on a door gun of a helicopter seems like you are looking to get yer face bashed in by the gun.

[BloodBane611]

Having talked to a bunch of transport aircraft crew today, I think the balance right now is good. In real life these guys rarely use their weapons, and even in a hot LZ they're mostly focused on their personnel, not killing people (which is a job for whatever attack aircraft they have escorting them). Even know people use the blackhawk on ramiel to hunt down insurgents, which is far from the way it should be used.

[Celestial1]

In real life these guys rarely use their weapons

When do they use them, though? I mean, would they literally not use them at all during a drop off or would it be more like firing off a burst just for some suppression during the landing, or what?

[Imchicken1]

which is a job for whatever attack aircraft they have escorting them

Just wondering but how often do attack choppers/LB's fly escort missions in PR? They're usually off doing their own thing. The only time sights would really be useful is if the chopper was grounded/dropping off troops. Otherwise it's tracers ftw

[Tim270]

When do they use them, though? I mean, would they literally not use them at all during a drop off or would it be more like firing off a burst just for some suppression during the landing, or what?

I assume it depends on the LZ, if it is expected to be hot then one can assume the weapons on the chopper might be needed to help suppress if there is incoming fire, otherwise inaccurate mg fire only going to tell your enemy exactly where you are or possibly hit civilian property.

[Hitman.2.5]

4 Barrel, 25mm version of the GAU-8

then it is not a version of the GAU-8

Trying to line up the sights on a door gun of a helicopter seems like you are looking to get yer face bashed in by the gun.

how when there will be no recoil because it is on a fixed mount plus you dont put your face against the sight its just a wire Crosshair attached to the weapon to help aim it not for precise sniper shots

[BloodBane611]

When do they use them, though? I mean, would they literally not use them at all during a drop off or would it be more like firing off a burst just for some suppression during the landing, or what?

According the the nighthawk crew chief I talked to, almost never. Their primary defense is to get the hell away, quickly followed by lots of fire from a cobra.

[kf_reaper]

if i remember right one of the helos is flying trans and the other helo if flying as firesupport/ suppressing fire if the LZ is hot

but other then an helo squad i run now and then i never see anyone using the helo other then flying them in and getting shot down. and let alone working with the attack helos and other air assets

hear somthing you will never see in PR with most ppl that play

[Hotrod525]

The F-35 uses a GAU-22 or a 4 Barrel, 25mm version of the GAU-8, the same 5 barrel version is used on the AV-8 Harrier under the designation of GAU-12.

Yeah, Infinity Ward was being stupid with the Vulcan equipped Blackhawk, I don't even think the Blackhawk, or any sort of pintle mount could handle a full blown 4000 RPM M61.
Gosh I love pointing those things out.

To be honest, I think Door Guns should have larger tracers, to enhance aiming and target acquisition, and maybe add a bit more splash damage and maybe some deviation to help. Only optics if real life occasions call for them.

Ever heard about C.C.A. ?

CLOSE COMBAT ATTACK (CCA)

No pintle mount could handle a M134D firing ? Cause that what he's talkin about. The gun in CODMW2 is a M134D firing 7.62mm HEI-T. or API-T.... in AStan Canadian use HEI-T :


Also you known that a M134D is a pinpoint accurate weapon ?




So basicly the point of having a smaller caliber gun for us is [ in R.L. theater ] : For C.A.S. you need high command autorisation, since any caliber larger than 12.7mm is consider "hazardous for civilian casualties" [ dont ask me why, ask General McChristal... ] for C.C.A. you just call it and it come without any time losed waiting for the "Proceed Aut."

[USMCMIDN]

Ever heard about C.C.A. ?

CLOSE COMBAT ATTACK (CCA)

No pintle mount could handle a M134D firing ? Cause that what he's talkin about. The gun in CODMW2 is a M134D firing 7.62mm HEI-T. or API-T.... in AStan Canadian use HEI-T :


Also you known that a M134D is a pinpoint accurate weapon ?




So basicly the point of having a smaller caliber gun for us is [ in R.L. theater ] : For C.A.S. you need high command autorisation, since any caliber larger than 12.7mm is consider "hazardous for civilian casualties" [ dont ask me why, ask General McChristal... ] for C.C.A. you just call it and it come without any time losed waiting for the "Proceed Aut."

Sick video bro.

[Drunkenup]

Ever heard about C.C.A. ?

CLOSE COMBAT ATTACK (CCA)

No pintle mount could handle a M134D firing ? Cause that what he's talkin about. The gun in CODMW2 is a M134D firing 7.62mm HEI-T. or API-T.... in AStan Canadian use HEI-T :


Also you known that a M134D is a pinpoint accurate weapon ?




So basicly the point of having a smaller caliber gun for us is [ in R.L. theater ] : For C.A.S. you need high command autorisation, since any caliber larger than 12.7mm is consider "hazardous for civilian casualties" [ dont ask me why, ask General McChristal... ] for C.C.A. you just call it and it come without any time losed waiting for the "Proceed Aut."

You know I said that no pintle mount on a helo like a UH-1 could handle a m61, not a M134. Following the remark about MW2 and it's Vulcan equipped blackhawk. Having the experience to play that spec-ops mission where ones on the ground and the other gunning the Vulcan, I've noticed that the MW2 Vulcan (Not Minigun) is much larger than the usual M134. It is dead accurate, I know that too, it is too ingame, but it's nearly impossible to hit anything moving, which is why I suggested larger and more noticeable tracers. Read it more carefully.

[BloodBane611]

I know we like waving our e-peens around, but if you don't have anything to say that is on-topic, please refrain from derailing the thread.

The topic is whether door gunners should have sights. In my opinion door gunners are already used unrealistically, especially on insurgent maps, I don't see any reason a whole bunch of work should be done to make it even easier for BLUFOR to rape the insurgents from the air

[Wo0Do0]

I know we like waving our e-peens around, but if you don't have anything to say that is on-topic, please refrain from derailing the thread.

The topic is whether door gunners should have sights. In my opinion door gunners are already used unrealistically, especially on insurgent maps, I don't see any reason a whole bunch of work should be done to make it even easier for BLUFOR to rape the insurgents from the air

The thread starter has thereby rest his case, I ask bloodbane to close this thread. Door gunners with iron sights might be useful in realife, but now I see in PR giving it would serve no more help to the pilot or the crew, what really effects the success of the insertion and extraction is communication and timing.

Support my other hot topic by giving your opinion>
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f257-v0-91-general-feedback/81820-addition-rp-thread.html

[USMCMIDN]

You know I said that no pintle mount on a helo like a UH-1 could handle a m61, not a M134. Following the remark about MW2 and it's Vulcan equipped blackhawk. Having the experience to play that spec-ops mission where ones on the ground and the other gunning the Vulcan, I've noticed that the MW2 Vulcan (Not Minigun) is much larger than the usual M134. It is dead accurate, I know that too, it is too ingame, but it's nearly impossible to hit anything moving, which is why I suggested larger and more noticeable tracers. Read it more carefully.

A modified Vulcan was put on some Hueys for the door gunners... They removed barrels to make it work. But no, the Vulcan is seen on some Hueys for their door gunner not just the M134.

The M61 Vulcan was modified into a lighter three-barrel version by removing three of the barrels, shortening the barrels, and changing the ammunition feed mechanism. The light weight modified Vulcan was type classified as the M197 20mm automatic gun now in use on the Modernized AH-1F "Huey" Cobra light attack helicopter. A modified Vulcan was also pintle mounted for use as a door gun on the UH-1 series "Huey" utility helicopter. The M197 has a selectable firing rate of 2000 spm or 3000 spm.

The Gatling Gun