Project Reality Forums

There is too many incompetent, ignorant and selfish medics. Present day medics only revive and heal their squad members. It's easier just to give up and respawn than wait 5 minutes for nothing and respawn.

Actually, I think this 5 minute man down timer has something to do with this issue. What if every medic think that Someone Else™ have more time to take care of that fallen not-from-my-squad guy? With the short man down timer we had earlier, usually the closest medic was the only one who could help as all the other medics were too far away.

Man down timer should be somehow relative to all the other timers in game. For example, how realistic is that a critically wounded person can wait help exactly as long as it takes to deliver a brand new chopper or humvee from factory/staging area to operations base?

clueless_noob wrote:There is too many incompetent, ignorant and selfish medics. Present day medics only revive and heal their squad members. It's easier just to give up and respawn than wait 5 minutes for nothing and respawn.

Actually, I think this 5 minute man down timer has something to do with this issue. What if every medic think that Someone Else™ have more time to take care of that fallen not-from-my-squad guy? With the short man down timer we had earlier, usually the closest medic was the only one who could help as all the other medics were too far away.

Man down timer should be somehow relative to all the other timers in game. For example, how realistic is that a critically wounded person can wait help exactly as long as it takes to deliver a brand new chopper or humvee from factory/staging area to operations base?

there should be maybe some lure then to medics to go and revive critically wounded.
maybe gain tickets?

maarit wrote:
people die too much cos they are just careless.

People die too much in-game because they are nufties
who don't see the "reality" concept as applying to the value
to their team of actually staying alive - across maps,
game modes and teams.

the spawntime is just one part of the punishment for being killed. being removed from the area is the other part. the spawntime is the bigger punishment on 1km maps. on the bigger maps, having to respawn and regroup with your squad is a way worse penalty than the spawntime in most cases. on the big maps, i think there is a LOT of incentive to keep yourself alive and big penalties for death.

i wouldnt mind seeing a little spawntime added again for each death (cause it would be better on 1km maps) but i think it's pretty good the way it is.

Just an observation: I think medics in general lost interest when their EpiPens would get used up on guys that give up right after they die. In vBf2 you could tell when a guy was revivable through the icon that sat above his body.

maarit wrote:there should be maybe some lure then to medics to go and revive critically wounded.
maybe gain tickets?

Or -5seconds(up to a max of 30) to the medics spawn time for every person he revives.

doop-de-doo wrote:Just an observation: I think medics in general lost interest when their EpiPens would get used up on guys that give up right after they die. In vBf2 you could tell when a guy was revivable through the icon that sat above his body.

Works in PR too, but only when they call for a medic. I usually stand over top of a body and hold my epipen out to see if they call for the medic before I waste one on a dead body.

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On the topic of people not valuing their lives, I think a large part of this is because of the massive amounts of tickets. Not only the starting amount, but the 25ticket reward per cache in insurgency is a bit excessive. It's basically saying that the conventional forces expect to lose over 25 guys per cache, so don't sweat it when you die. I also agree with increasing the ticket penalty for (at least the valuable) vehicles.

alberto_di_gio wrote: ... A reward in change of your survival. Don't know really but something that will push people to try stay alive.

Less spawn time or a small point bonus after a length of time alive?

doop-de-doo wrote:Less spawn time or a small point bonus after a length of time alive?

Good idea, how about something like...

When you spawn, your spawn time is 6minutes. For every second you stay alive, it loses a second, up to 5minutes.

So if you die immediately after spawning and give up, you have to wait 5+ minutes to spawn. But, if you stay alive for 5minutes (which should be easy since it takes 5minutes to die when wounded) your spawn time is the normal 60seconds.

That would encourage people to wait for medic, and it would prevent the same person from dying every 60seconds.

im not a big fan of points but there could be a solution to stop vanilla idiots bum rushing and losing tickets..

It ay be a good idea to give a slow constant amount of points to players who stay alive like...10 a minute oor somethig so that when it gets to the end people can genuinly see who the good and the bad are.

crAck_sh0t wrote:im not a big fan of points but there could be a solution to stop vanilla idiots bum rushing and losing tickets..

It ay be a good idea to give a slow constant amount of points to players who stay alive like...10 a minute oor somethig so that when it gets to the end people can genuinly see who the good and the bad are.

I think so too. That's a good idea.

crAck_sh0t wrote:im not a big fan of points but there could be a solution to stop vanilla idiots bum rushing and losing tickets..

It ay be a good idea to give a slow constant amount of points to players who stay alive like...10 a minute oor somethig so that when it gets to the end people can genuinly see who the good and the bad are.

Nice catch actually. But should be adjusted well. I don't think I want to see my squad members just fooling around the map just not to die and get points. And also some kits may need to be excluded like sniper, crewman etc. Or may be points can be gained should change from kit to kit.

But I also still support for longer spawn times.

google wrote:To take the thread in a slightly different direction, what is the point of dying if you have 5 minutes to be revived as well as when luck determines whether you get shot or not?

Key to the problem right there.

google wrote:To take the thread in a slightly different direction, what is the point of dying if you have 5 minutes to be revived as well as when luck determines whether you get shot or not?

Partly supporting my OP. People trusting their luck more. PR have many key issues to let things get out of the hands of luck. What we need to bring back is the feeling of "think third or fourth before pushing your luck"

Just increasing spawn times won't do. I mean lets face it, you have your good and your bad days. Getting killed by random stuff, like an APC 600m away, or an attack heli 1km high. No one enjoys that, but it's one of the things that makes PR great. If you just increase spawn times, or make them harshly cumulative, it is going to be heaps worse for new players, or worse for people just having a **** day in PR. It also makes it easier for people who a really good at PR, because everytime you knock them down its that much harder for them to get back up.

I still think OP has a point though. I used to be heaps scared of dying, now it doesn't feel so bad. Although we can attribute that to just having played the game for this much longer.

Dying will always matter. You have to remember that you lose a ticket every time you die.(Wounded=/=dead btw...) Most pubbers dont care about tickets since they are "just playing". During organized matches getting killed is a rather serious event, since no one wants to lose tickets.

L4gi wrote:Dying will always matter. You have to remember that you lose a ticket every time you die.(Wounded=/=dead btw...) Most pubbers dont care about tickets since they are "just playing". During organized matches getting killed is a rather serious event, since no one wants to lose tickets.

There are two sides on this matter. One is not dying because you dont want to waste tickets and the other is not dying because you are afraid of it.

Like there is a difference at driving slowly because you are afraid you will crash or driving slowly to save fuel.

And I think this topic is directioned at the psychic side.

I think that heavier penalties per death may result in less people finding PR attractive. I understand that if a bonus only touches those who stay alive, people might end up not fighting at all. Perhaps we can fine-tune this down to people not giving up and kill two birds with one stone.

If you die through not being revived after the time limit is over, you only get the regular team ticket loss and whatever else is already implemented. However, if you do give up, you pay [insert harsher penalty].
This, in effect, could make people a bit more afraid of death. 1. Having to wait to be revived. 2. The heavy penalty given to those who refuse to wait for medics.

As a final note: has anyone noticed fewer people opting to use medic kits? I've seen an entire half of a team without any medics in their squads.

Solution to the problem. Introduce a Death Kick. Once you die X (I'm suggesting 5) times in a round you get booted from the server. You can rejoin straight away afterwards. The idea is inspired from an IL2 server I regularly fly on. 90% of the people there dont need an incentive to not get shot down/killed as they treat it as a simulation and fly accordingly, but IMO this is where we need to go with PR.

All the suggestions i've seen so far this topic apart from Redamares suggestion are too light handed to work imo. No one is going to care about +5s on the spawn time, they will however care about being booted from the game.

AaronFraher wrote:Solution to the problem. Introduce a Death Kick. Once you die X (I'm suggesting 5) times in a round you get booted from the server. You can rejoin straight away afterwards.

This can only be a server rule and can't be forced after all. Plus I don't think that will look really good. Kicking people out because they die a lot.

alberto_di_gio wrote:This can only be a server rule and can't be forced after all. Plus I don't think that will look really good. Kicking people out because they die a lot.

I was under the impression that it can be automated across all servers. Also, its not supposed to "Look Good", its supposed to deter people from dying. Seems to me that everyone is keen to make a virtual life hold some value, but are too afraid to implement or suggest changes that achieve the desired effect.