Project Reality Forums

Hunt3r wrote:Allow me to clear up some falsehoods on this topic.

The A-10 and Frogfoot are both armed with heat-seeking missiles. The air superiority/multi-role aircraft also have the EXACT same missiles. However, the multi-role aircraft also should have BVR missiles, either the R-73 or AIM-120 AMRAAM.

In theory there should be no difference in range between an AIM-9X fired by an F-16 and one fired by an A-10. However, the difference is that A-10s fly slower. This means that the AIM-9X would be imparted with less velocity from the start, thus it has reduced range.

If PR had more realistic AA missiles heatseekers would lock on as soon as something within boresight enters view distance, and BVR missiles would lock up aircraft at up to 2 KM away in game.

BUT THATS NOT WHAT OP MEANT.
he meant that the distance at which the A-10s sidewinders can lock is smaller than with fighters.
and thats good because it simulates the lack of radar with bombers.

ps:
FACT is that you can lock much earlier with radar than with EOS irl. fact is taht sidewinders of an a-10 have a lower velocity as ones of an f-16 because of the airspeed difference.
AND if something enters your viewdistance doesnt mean that you can directly lock on with eos irl. it depends on the type of target, the angle and the weather conditions hardly!

Zoddom wrote:BUT THATS NOT WHAT OP MEANT.
he meant that the distance at which the A-10s sidewinders can lock is smaller than with fighters.
and thats good because it simulates the lack of radar with bombers.

ps:
FACT is that you can lock much earlier with radar than with EOS irl. fact is taht sidewinders of an a-10 have a lower velocity as ones of an f-16 because of the airspeed difference.
AND if something enters your viewdistance doesnt mean that you can directly lock on with eos irl. it depends on the type of target, the angle and the weather conditions hardly!

Fact is that acquiring lock with radar does nothing to increase the actual range of the missile. There are some cases when you have a locked target indicated inside Rmax1 on the range scale, but there is no "Growl" emitted from the AAM. If a shot was taken here, the missile would fly dumb off the rail and not track. The difference in KTAS is negligible WRT the ranges we have in PR, and please dont retort with "Oh, but theres a 1000km/h difference in IAS between the A-10 and the F-16", because speeds mean absolutely nothing in PR. Here are some examples. Its possible to get a UH-1 to M.85 at MSL. The Vref of the A-10 in PR is 320KIAS, and the list goes on.

Please try not to cite realism as an excuse for a flaw on the part of the game, especially when the knowledge you present in incorrect and limited.

Zoddom wrote:BUT THATS NOT WHAT OP MEANT.
he meant that the distance at which the A-10s sidewinders can lock is smaller than with fighters.
and thats good because it simulates the lack of radar with bombers.

ps:
FACT is that you can lock much earlier with radar than with EOS irl. fact is taht sidewinders of an a-10 have a lower velocity as ones of an f-16 because of the airspeed difference.
AND if something enters your viewdistance doesnt mean that you can directly lock on with eos irl. it depends on the type of target, the angle and the weather conditions hardly!

There are no weather conditions in PR apart from low view distance that simulates Fog/Dust it should not matter about radar on the F-16 and A-10 in relation to the AIM-9M as the missiles should be exactly the same as they both use HEAT to track and lock its target...

[rage]you both just dont get that f*ckin OPs point !!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU POST!

THE DISCUSSION WAS NEVER ABOUT THE RANGE OF MISSILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND I NEVER SAID RADAR INCREASES THE RANGE OF MISSILES, NEVER EVER!!!!!!!!!!
[/rage]

In PR, lock = In range for shot. I'm really struggling to see the point you are trying to make Zoddom. If you lock up with the F-16 and take a shot then you should be able to do the exact same thing in the A-10.
I'm not going to explain everything again so just refer to my previous post.

Zoddom wrote:[rage]you both just dont get that f*ckin OPs point !!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU POST!

THE DISCUSSION WAS NEVER ABOUT THE RANGE OF MISSILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND I NEVER SAID RADAR INCREASES THE RANGE OF MISSILES, NEVER EVER!!!!!!!!!!
[/rage]

......... then i explain:
OP said you cant lock with bombers as far as with jets.
THIS is due to simulation of EOS/radar, in which the fighters have an avantage.
and if you locked with bombers you also can launch and hit BUT the enemy has to be much nearer than in fighters..

and dont try again to tell me that you can lock with bombers as early as with fighters cause both carry the same missiles. if youve selected the first weapon slot in F-16, the HUD sais "Radar OFF". so when you switch weapons radar will be activated ---> possibility to lock earlier than with A-10, WHICH HAS NO RADAR.

get it now?

So...you can't lock enemy targets at the same range? Didn't they explain this earlier in the thread..with the radar?

Zoddom wrote:......... then i explain:
OP said you cant lock with bombers as far as with jets.
THIS is due to simulation of EOS/radar, in which the fighters have an avantage.
and if you locked wit

and dont try again to tell me that you can lock with bombers as early as with fighters cause both carry the same missiles. if youve selected the first weapon slot in F-16, the HUD sais "Radar OFF". so when you switch weapons radar will be activated ---> possibility to lock earlier than with A-10, WHICH HAS NO RADAR.

get it now?

Yes, this is true, and i've never said anything contrary to it. But what you dont seem to get is just because you can lock further out DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE IN RANGE TO SHOOT (Seen as you seem to be a fan of Caps). Seen as you seem to think that PR is a "Simulation", why dont you decrease the Range of the AIM-9M on the F-16 then? And tell me when did i ever say that you can lock as early with "bombers", as fighters? You seem to have a small amount of knowledge on the subject, then misinterpret what people say and pull stuff out of your arse tbh.

AaronFraher wrote:Yes, this is true, and i've never said anything contrary to it. But what you dont seem to get is just because you can lock further out DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE IN RANGE TO SHOOT

but the lock range of an EOS isnt the max range of a missile either.
but what advantage would fighters have ingame if they can lock further but having a max range of EOS lock of the bombers?
you cant even speak of range in PR, because every missile has infinitive range i think

Zoddom wrote:but the lock range of an EOS isnt the max range of a missile either.
but what advantage would fighters have ingame if they can lock further but having a max range of EOS lock of the bombers?
you cant even speak of range in PR, because every missile has infinitive range i think

Look, you clearly dont seem to get that a Shot taken at Rmax1 has a terrible quality of lock and wont track. You fail to see my point every single time, as such this will be my last reply on the topic.

Technically, An R-73 or AIM-9 launched from a F-16 or MIG-29 would have a longer range than if they were fired from a SU-25 or an A-10 since the F-16 and MIG-29 can go much faster, also a missile fired from an A-10 at a MIG-29 from the behind would have a shorter range since the MIG is flying faster (same for an Su-25 vs F-16) but I don't think that can be simulated in PR, so its probably better to have the same range on all short range missiles.

(the su-25 shouldn't even be carrying the R-73, it should be carrying the R-60, but thats just me being unnecessarily picky )

Cp wrote:Technically, An R-73 or AIM-9 launched from a F-16 or MIG-29 would have a longer range than if they were fired from a SU-25 or an A-10 since the F-16 and MIG-29 can go much faster, also a missile fired from an A-10 at a MIG-29 from the behind would have a shorter range since the MIG is flying faster (same for an Su-25 vs F-16) but I don't think that can be simulated in PR, so its probably better to have the same range on all short range missiles.

youre wrong, technically every missile has the same range, it just wont reach the MiG inside of this range cause it goes too fast.
aaron was right, the difference between the IAS is negligible, i think it wont even make a difference of half a km

all missiles have already the same range in pr.
the only thing they can simulate is the effectiveness of radar/EOS.

@Aaron:
start talking clearly then i will understand, and stick to the conditions of PR.
-> all missiles have the same infinitive range. so they can only simulate ..... read above.

I used one missle in the dogfight in this video(had only one there) it missed but its still usable in Attacker vs Attacker since they are able to keep up with each other.

yea but normally you only enter dogfight with an a-10 if the enemy is coming from your 12 anyway.

Zoddom wrote:yea but normally you only enter dogfight with an a-10 if the enemy is coming from your 12 anyway.

Thats more of a personal opinion

Hitman.2.5 wrote:CAS aircraft a very agile the A-10 especially as it was designed to turn withing a small radius and the lower speed makes them more agile.

but in the laser weapon a10/f16, pitch is stupidly sluggish (i guess this simulates the weight of the missiles/bombs on the airframe)

An A-10 entering in a dogfight with a faster opponent becomes VERY vulnerable to boom and zoom tactics.

Hunt3r wrote:An A-10 entering in a dogfight with a faster opponent becomes VERY vulnerable to boom and zoom tactics.

Thats precisely why if you're gonna dogfight in the A-10, make sure you have the clear advantage; otherwise you will be screwed over by faster, more agile fighters with higher A/A payload like a MiG-29, or SU-30.

Agreed and I would much rather use my cannon THEN use your AIMs plus the faster opponent can easily outmaneuver you so I guess just DONT get into one in the first place.