Project Reality Forums

[R-DEV]Outlawz wrote:Yes, we only gave them scoped weapons for no apparent reason, they're still stuck in the 20th century when it comes to equipment and tactics, so we should remove them, right?

U show me a picture of majority soldiers in a platoon in the PLA or Russia that have optics on their rifles (ill give u MEC because its made up) and ill believe u.

I have asked this question to several Marines in my unit who have worked closely to the Chinese Marines, and the Russian military. All say the same thing. I also doubted them and decided to look online (which I found nothing) and I asked a Chinese military historian at West Point who said for the most part only marksman carry optics on their rifles. However some special units do have optics on their weapons for example Spetsnaz or special police (whom I have seen them with EoTechs, pretty cool I thought) and some PLA special forces units have them (in fact there is a pic of them conducting anti piracy ops where they are seen with body armor and scoped rifles, another pretty cool pic I thought)

Now I know its for balance of game play granted I understand that. But please dont think my intelligence on the subject is off and misinformed. I never said the PLA or Russian military were stuck in the 20th century... for the most part the Chinese military has great equipment and the Russian military has always had great equipment also. I have never said either country is stuck in the 20th century. And I m not one of those gamers who wants the US or UK to always win in PR because I favorite them.

Russian military.

we should all bow to the expertise of our Russian MA Nosforatu

when it comes to China we are a little lacking in information.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:we should all bow to the expertise of our Russian MA Nosforatu

when it comes to China we are a little lacking in information.

I have pmed him a couple of times on the Russian military.... very nice guy who also is very informative.

the problem isnt the scopes, it's the lack of cover. sure we allready have plenty of more objects to use as cover now but it still doesnt match how in real life you can use almost anything effectively as cover. The terrain IRL provides lots of solid cover but you cant have that ion game due to the way terrain is made in the BF2 engine.

unfortunately ditches like this are rare in PR and IRL they are all over the place. everything we do have is almost twice as wide and the sides arn't steep enough to provide effective cover

and also notice the mud in the back ground. realisticaly you could crawl across that without being noticed do to the bumps on the uneven surface. but in BF2 that amount of physical detail is impossible. that and you can roll around to cover yourself in mud to blend in while in a game you stay generally very clean and thus fully exposed.

USMCMIDN wrote:U show me a picture of majority soldiers in a platoon in the PLA or Russia that have optics on their rifles (ill give u MEC because its made up) and ill believe u.

I have asked this question to several Marines in my unit who have worked closely to the Chinese Marines, and the Russian military. All say the same thing. I also doubted them and decided to look online (which I found nothing) and I asked a Chinese military historian at West Point who said for the most part only marksman carry optics on their rifles. However some special units do have optics on their weapons for example Spetsnaz or special police (whom I have seen them with EoTechs, pretty cool I thought) and some PLA special forces units have them (in fact there is a pic of them conducting anti piracy ops where they are seen with body armor and scoped rifles, another pretty cool pic I thought)

Now I know its for balance of game play granted I understand that. But please dont think my intelligence on the subject is off and misinformed. I never said the PLA or Russian military were stuck in the 20th century... for the most part the Chinese military has great equipment and the Russian military has always had great equipment also. I have never said either country is stuck in the 20th century. And I m not one of those gamers who wants the US or UK to always win in PR because I favorite them.

http://img236.imageshack.us/f/0ded7ab76kb.jpg
If you look closely, in the background there is something sitting on top of the LMG.

http://img156.imageshack.us/i/610xht8.jpg/
Here, both Grenadiers have 1P29 scopes (one without the rubber eyepiece for some reason).

Anyways, I enjoy having Ironsights, but not enough to abolish them from the game. I don't care personally whether or not they are used by PLA and Russia, but they balance the game so every game of PLA/Russian Army vs. USMC/US Army/British Army/German Army isn't like Insurgency.

Bringerof_D wrote:the problem isnt the scopes, it's the lack of cover. sure we allready have plenty of more objects to use as cover now but it still doesnt match how in real life you can use almost anything effectively as cover. The terrain IRL provides lots of solid cover but you cant have that ion game due to the way terrain is made in the BF2 engine.

unfortunately ditches like this are rare in PR and IRL they are all over the place. everything we do have is almost twice as wide and the sides arn't steep enough to provide effective cover

and also notice the mud in the back ground. realisticaly you could crawl across that without being noticed do to the bumps on the uneven surface. but in BF2 that amount of physical detail is impossible. that and you can roll around to cover yourself in mud to blend in while in a game you stay generally very clean and thus fully exposed.

This is what im stressing on WIP maps, more cover more cover and more cover. i understand that in kashan desert there will be little cover, but in urman, rural maps, MOAR BOAR WANTS MOAR cover.

Exactly CommunistColby71. The last couple of games I picked the Iron Sight over the scope. Its a bit harder to get the longer ranger kills but not impossible. Plus, if you get some medium to close range combat I think its easier to take people out with the Irons.

And the Cover idea. I dont know man. Isnt there plenty of cover in maps to use for 6 vs 6 combats? Isnt it just the players who travel over open ground grouped up with no one covering them?

I havent really got an opinion on the matter. I guess that if you remove the scope kits you'd just get people fighting in closer ranges. You'd get the scopes covering the advance and than a quick medium to close range fight.

CommunistColby71 wrote:Imageshack - 0ded7ab76kb.jpg
If you look closely, in the background there is something sitting on top of the LMG.

Imageshack - 610xht8.jpg
Here, both Grenadiers have 1P29 scopes (one without the rubber eyepiece for some reason).

Anyways, I enjoy having Ironsights, but not enough to abolish them from the game. I don't care personally whether or not they are used by PLA and Russia, but they balance the game so every game of PLA/Russian Army vs. USMC/US Army/British Army/German Army isn't like Insurgency.

Again like I said they have them but not for everyone. Show me a pic of a platoon sized element for the majority with optics like most NATO nations. Not special forces, normal everyday infantry. I have seen whole units with optics but again they were the special police units.

And I totally agree with the balancing I said that b4. If just the Western nations had optics then the game would be unfair to the other players in AAS.

These pics were taken in 2010 of the Russian Military

http://en.rian.ru/world/20100707/159717619.html (about a squad)

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20100611/159387336.html (a squad)

http://nebuchadnezzarwoollyd.blogspot.c ... -dead.html (Russian troops in a combat zone, also a pic of a casualty..not related and not taken in 2010)

http://www.russianmilitaryblog.com/2010 ... chive.html (this one has a ton of platoon sized pic...and some rly rly cool special forces pics with EoTechs )

PS does anyone know what units those guys r from?

If you wanted to be realistic, CCOs or ACOGs for all rifles on the US side. The USMC should be all ACOGs.

Hunt3r wrote:If you wanted to be realistic, CCOs or ACOGs for all rifles on the US side. The USMC should be all ACOGs.

They don't all have ACOG's though do they?
*Note* I'm not sure because I have no knowledge of the USMC

Not all marines use ACOG sights, I believe they choose wether they use them in their assorted kit or not. Shoot even some marines weild captured AK-47's sometimes. They dont all use the ACOG. But we do love the ACOG

Smiddey723 wrote:And the 3d scopes that are coming which adds the blur around the edges will make you see even less

You actually see more. Instead of having a black cylinder take up most of your screen you get blurred peripheral vision.


Imo, its more a product of PR's engagements taking place at much closer range than rl, hopefully if backup sights come in at some point it will overcome this problem.

Smiddey723 wrote:And the 3d scopes that are coming which adds the blur around the edges will make you see even less

Better then how it is now, you can't see anythin =)

Trognar wrote:Not all marines use ACOG sights, I believe they choose wether they use them in their assorted kit or not. Shoot even some marines weild captured AK-47's sometimes. They dont all use the ACOG. But we do love the ACOG

Picking up enemy AKs and using them are strictly forbidden unless your SOPs say other wise such as Recon, FORCON, MARSOC maybe FAST. The reason for this is to prevent friendly fire. But again in circumstances its known to happen. Famous little youtube clip of a Marine picking up one in Fallujah and engaging the enemy (cool video I think). And OMG Generation Kill but that was not a regular infantry unit. Ull find pics everywhere tho of some US Soldier or Marine using an AK easy to find but were not supposed to do it. When im commissioned and if I c myself in combat and im all out of ammo would I break the rules and pick up a enemy weapon and use it? Yes!

But yes Marines dont all use Acog the majority do but Marines can buy their own optics and if they qualify with them they are able to go into the fight with it. They can not use their own weapons (some accessories they can add such again as optics, broom sticks, stocks, lights, lasers etc...) and they cant buy their own body armor, and not their own ammo (huge no no). What I have seen become very popular are EoTechs and some even with the flip up magnifier. Some units are even given EoTechs like MARSOC... On a side note: I am in love with that sight I sware I shoot faster with it truly an amazing optic...

Trognar wrote:Not all marines use ACOG sights, I believe they choose wether they use them in their assorted kit or not. Shoot even some marines weild captured AK-47's sometimes. They dont all use the ACOG. But we do love the ACOG

Every marine I have spoken with says that ACOGs are on nearly every weapon in their unit, simply by fact of being standard issue. Marines that DEVs have been in contact with, as well as our MAs, agree.

[R-MOD]BloodBane611 wrote:Every marine I have spoken with says that ACOGs are on nearly every weapon in their unit, simply by fact of being standard issue. Marines that DEVs have been in contact with, as well as our MAs, agree.

Not every Marine uses it but correct, for the majority does because as you said is standard issue.

What about the use of reflex sights that in game the Army and Marines use? How much are those used in RL and then would it just generally be ACOGs issued?

Lange wrote:What about the use of reflex sights that in game the Army and Marines use? How much are those used in RL and then would it just generally be ACOGs issued?

Not as much as the ACOGs for the US Marines but like i said they are out there if the Marine buys it for himself but the US Marines are issuing special units with EoTechs... I would guess the USArmy is the same... Like I said for the Marines if you buy it and qualify with it you can use any optic you like. IDK about the USArmy, I would hope the same...The Marines realized that if a shooter feels more comfortable with another optic rather then the ACOG and pass with it they hey good for him.

As for other services IDK. I am sure someone else knows about the Canadians, UK etc...

MARSOC - MSOB - Firing Range - Photo (MARSOC platoon all equipped with EoTech variants)

Google Image Result for http://www.marines.mil/unit/marsoc/PublishingImages/2010/100418-F-9999P-020.jpg (MARSOC with EoTech and magnifier)

Spare Ammo - Gun Pics: US Marine Corps Soldier with M16A4 with Foregrip, MARS Red Dot, and Surefire Flashlight in Falluja - SpareAmmo.com (US Marine Infantry using a Mars red dot purchased himself and using it in combat)

Google Image Result for http://i44.tinypic.com/15yhswm.jpg (US Marine Infantry using a EoTech in front of his ACOG (he can take the ACOG off and engage with EoTech if he wants (I would guess that is why he set up his rifle like that))

Google Image Result for http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs088.snc3/15544_1178031417654_1434185132_30611895_52894_n.jpg (Not a US Marine but USArmy using EoTech)

If you look pics of US Marines using all kinds of optics are out there... But US Marines are using optics in Infantry platoons other then the ACOG.

Aimpoints are out there too but with the increasing amount of popularity the EoTech are getting I would say more limited then the EoTechs but again they are out there.

Pictures are not a reliable source of information on military technology. Using pictures alone, I could prove that every American in Iraq used a golden AK-47. The fact is that pictures tell a very small slice of the story, the only way to find these things out is from soldiers themselves.

Thats all,what we needed =)
I think good idea remove some some scopes in sqd!
2 optics r nice and no one scoped mgs!
I think good idea taking MG with scope only on supply crate!
And of course my reason - do u see MG gunner,who shooting with same accuracy as a sniper?
IMO MG is not realistic:
There is PKM accuracy with 3-5 burst shooting(At 30 - ... sec)

I can't find any video with 5.56-5.45 physics,but in general - they have low recoil and good accuracy on middle-low distance,if distance higher - bullet going down!