Project Reality Forums

I agree it should be decreased but not by too much, maybe 3/4 of what it is now.

People who sit still long enough to fire should at least be able to fire somewhat rapidly since they already had to sit still for like 5 seconds

I do agree that it should be decreased when fireing shots but not by an awful lot, maybe instead of 2 seconds pershot(correct me if im wrong) to 1.5 seconds pershot

cyberzomby wrote:I dont know. If its deployed its something else. But I can imagine the kick of a weapon also forces the thing left or right. Its not just in a strict upwards motion. At least thats what I imagine because I never fired a weapon.

It allready kicks weapon left and right in current version.

SharpShooter13971 wrote:It all depends on how you shoot IMO. I crouch, sight in and wait 1-2 second(s) and I fire a round every 1-2 second(s) second until the guy stops moving

The crouch, sight and 1-2 seconds wait is normal, but after that you should be able to send more rounds down range with better accuracy because you allready need to realigh your shot because of the recoil, deviation is not really requred.

cyberzomby wrote:Yea exactly! I have no trouble hitting people. And if the R-DEV says he fired a lot of weapons real life and it feels life like to him. Than yea? I dont know what we are complaining about.


On the marksman subject: What I meant was, with a deployed weapon I can imagine the argument is true.

We are complaining about what does the deviation stand for when shooting when theres allready recoil implemented.

Idealy deviation shoould kick in when shot is fired and fade out at the same time the recoil animation ends, so your gun is ready to fire accurately. Yet if you fire full auto it would still increase sligtly over time.

The crouch, sight and 1-2 seconds wait is normal, but after that you should be able to send more rounds down range with better accuracy because you allready need to realigh your shot because of the recoil, deviation is not really requred.

Correct me if i'm wrong as I don't have to much expirience with weapons but I have fire an M4 a few times and in my expirience, you can only shoot once every second or two otherwise your other shots will be off completley

SharpShooter13971 wrote:The crouch, sight and 1-2 seconds wait is normal, but after that you should be able to send more rounds down range with better accuracy because you allready need to realigh your shot because of the recoil, deviation is not really requred.

Correct me if i'm wrong as I don't have to much expirience with weapons but I have fire an M4 a few times and in my expirience, you can only shoot once every second or two otherwise your other shots will be off completley

I have no experience with guns but common sense tells me that thats is recoil doing it. You shoot, recoil kicks in and if you want an accurate shot you have to steady your gun. If you fire fast you will whit wherever the recoil sends your aim to. And recoil is in game, no need for deviation to be exaggerated as you are fighting the recoil.

To be honest, I just find the whole concept of deviation rather annoying

Back in .6 we have no deviation and let me tell you it was hellish. G3's ruled the land and firefights were exceptionally brief affairs with maybe 4-5 shots per person MAXIMUM. Deviation is one of the best things PR currently has in it over the earlier versions, it can always be refined but it'll never go away.

SharpShooter13971 wrote:The crouch, sight and 1-2 seconds wait is normal, but after that you should be able to send more rounds down range with better accuracy because you allready need to realigh your shot because of the recoil, deviation is not really requred.

Correct me if i'm wrong as I don't have to much expirience with weapons but I have fire an M4 a few times and in my expirience, you can only shoot once every second or two otherwise your other shots will be off completley

depending on the gun, you can fire different amounts at different speeds accurately.

I have fired an mp5, and i could shoot full auto and hold it so the recoil affect had and a foot or so diffrence from 25 meters (not bad if i say so myself) (that was also the farthes distance between the 1-2-3 bullets, becusae i need to get a feel for the recoil, so i could give it proper.. anit-recoil?... when i pushed down on it so it would not recoil up to much

but when i fired a glock fully auto, i could not shoot 3 shots fully auto anywhere near each other, the recoil pushed the gun up about half an inch before the second bullet came out, theirfor making it after 5 bullets, the gun was pointed kinda high in the air =P

when i fired a m1919 on i monopod in the ground, i shot in bursts of about 20 bullets (standing with the monopod in the ground BTW) and the recoil was not bad, i hit a huge puddle (about 3 feet across,) with every single bullet, no problem at all, from a range of about 50 meters at a low angle.

my father shot a BAR and the thing was so heavy, the recoil mostly pushed him backwards, but the aim was mostly accuret for 3-5 rounds before it went all over the place

i shot an ak-47 and i was not worried about acuracy, and just shot, but the bullets more or less went everywhere when i did that =P

i have a 22. rifle that is only a single shot, but you could shoot 5 rounds a second without it loosing any acuracy easily.

when i shot some sort of m-16 (it was modified with a bigger bullet) i shot about 2 rounds a second, to hit accuretly, at 50 meters, at a propane tank.


i have not played the newest pr very much, but in real life, from what i have shot, you can shoot semi accuretly, semi fast.

it just takes practice.

ChizNizzle wrote:I have no experience with guns but common sense tells me that thats is recoil doing it. You shoot, recoil kicks in and if you want an accurate shot you have to steady your gun. If you fire fast you will whit wherever the recoil sends your aim to. And recoil is in game, no need for deviation to be exaggerated as you are fighting the recoil.

I read the entire thread and just understood now.

Great argumentation, man. I agree, while I really didn't notice this issue in-game.

SharpShooter13971 wrote:
Correct me if i'm wrong as I don't have to much expirience with weapons but I have fire an M4 a few times and in my expirience, you can only shoot once every second or two otherwise your other shots will be off completley

Just keep in mind a US soldier has fired his M4 a damn LOT. I think he must have an idea of how it handles.

goguapsy wrote: Just keep in mind a US soldier has fired his M4 a damn LOT. I think he must have an idea of how it handles.

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:Deviation doesn't increase while shooting. What your talking about it recoil, now I've personally fired many different weapons with automatic capability and that fact of the matter is that its really freaking hard to get anything but the first round on target unless you have the weapon supported on something. PRs recoil system is very true to life the chances of any changes being made to it are slim.

You might wanna read that then...

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:You might wanna read that then...

Yeah man, I read the entire thread.

What I'm saying is that a US Army soldier fires his M4 a little more than a few times.


What makes this guy (I don't know if he's in the army or not) not shoot at the sky?



I'd say it's some practice. About what I said about a soldier knowing how the guns feels it's that he has an idea of how strong is the recoil. And knowing something, even if you can counter it (in guns you gun counter a LITTLE bit) is helpful. And a US Army soldier does get some considerable practice in the shooting range, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

goguapsy wrote: I'd say it's some practice. About what I said about a soldier knowing how the guns feels it's that he has an idea of how strong is the recoil. And knowing something, even if you can counter it (in guns you gun counter a LITTLE bit) is helpful. And a US Army soldier does get some considerable practice in the shooting range, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ask Thermis, I'm pretty sure he knows what US Army soldiers do...hint hint,

Yeah, no changes to the recoil system are fine, but to reduce annoyance, can we please make the deviation increase between shots only take .5-.75 seconds to dissipate? It would make assault rifles and marksmen rifles a lot more useful in suppression, seeing as how with long range shots at 300 meters are already pretty hard to achieve, especially if the target is moving.

goguapsy wrote:
What makes this guy (I don't know if he's in the army or not) not shoot at the sky?

his hand on the front, forgot to notice if it was left or right, if pulling down on the gun, you can see preatty well that the recoil is pushing it up, while he is pulling it down with one hand.

plus, if your gun moves a milimeter, your shot at 300 meters can miss easy.

if you would have seen where he was hitten, you would have seen how spread out it really was, if that was a 50 meter shot, he probbably hit in a 2-4 foot spread.

bloodthirsty_viking wrote:his hand on the front, forgot to notice if it was left or right, if pulling down on the gun, you can see preatty well that the recoil is pushing it up, while he is pulling it down with one hand.

plus, if your gun moves a milimeter, your shot at 300 meters can miss easy.

if you would have seen where he was hitten, you would have seen how spread out it really was, if that was a 50 meter shot, he probbably hit in a 2-4 foot spread.

The world record Sniper shot is currently 8120 feet = 2475 meters. Two targets standing next to each other. Lets say the 2 targets were standing 1 meter apart. That's a change of angle of 0.02 degrees. Or 1.39 arc minutes. At one meter, 1.39 arc minutes equates to 0.4mm separation.

Think about that, then think about how much the slightest movement of the muzzle can effect where the bullet ends up. That saw gunner likely covered an 8 foot by 8 foot area at 50 meters the way that muzzle was moving.

Yes I agree something is wrong with how people do INfantry firefights nowa days in PR. It is SO effin annoying to set up ya squad to release alot of ammuntion down range for supressive fire and then the little buggers just sit there waiting for deviation to minimize then POW. Headshot...

JUst brainstorming here. When supression effects take place on a soldier... May it also have a effect on his deviation meter?

Sorry if this is rude but it just seems like your trying to make shooting easier

I keep my weapons on full auto or 3 round burst (because you never know when someone gonna jump in your face) but at 50m+ Crouch, Sight In, Switch to Single, 1 second wait, fire 1-2 rounds every second and I don't have any problems.

But if your talking about full auto but ONCE AGAIN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONGsoldiers aren't trained to squeeze the trigger until the mag runs out no matter how well they learn how strong the recoil is

joethepro36 wrote:Back in .6 we have no deviation and let me tell you it was hellish. G3's ruled the land and firefights were exceptionally brief affairs with maybe 4-5 shots per person MAXIMUM. Deviation is one of the best things PR currently has in it over the earlier versions, it can always be refined but it'll never go away.

Yay good old times with the overkill LAZ0R weapons

Make this change only for marksman weapons"deployed" mode.. Normally I would agree to add this to all weapons but you must keep in mind of BF2 engine limitations: as in poor usage of coverage makes for pretty short firefights. You cant lean, you cant rest weapons on objects, unlike other game engines.

Some points why firefights might last shorter in PR;

1. Lack of cover due to bad engine limitations.

2. Lack of fear of death makes you more careless.

3. Lack of fatigue/stress/pain makes you always 100% accurate when deviation cools down,(even when wounded, that red splatter effect don't do much.)

Rifles in real life can be deadly-accurate if supported and used properly. What makes firefights last longer is that most "real" humans fear death and can utilize cover in a way you cant fully simulate in PR.

But still, this might be justifiable for the deployed marksman, as in my opinion he still sucks in deployed mode.

Killer-Ape wrote:1. Lack of cover due to bad engine limitations.

2. Lack of fear of death makes you more careless.

3. Lack of fatigue/stress/pain makes you always 100% accurate when deviation cools down,(even when wounded, that red splatter effect don't do much.)

1. There is no cover system because you haev to use your brain to take cover. And there is no engine limitations, its only how much cover will the mapper place on the map.

2. Yes, and thats because i know if he supresses me, he will miss more and more, while i lowe my deviation behind cover, pop up, shoot him in the face, he dies, i get a medic and everybody is happy. If deviation wouldnt increase so rapidly that would mean if i pop up im gonna get hit in the face probably and die.

3. That is true, maybe the red effect should be changed or more exaggerated...

ChizNizzle wrote:1. There is no cover system because you haev to use your brain to take cover. And there is no engine limitations, its only how much cover will the mapper place on the map.

2. Yes, and thats because i know if he supresses me, he will miss more and more, while i lowe my deviation behind cover, pop up, shoot him in the face, he dies, i get a medic and everybody is happy. If deviation wouldnt increase so rapidly that would mean if i pop up im gonna get hit in the face probably and die.

3. That is true, maybe the red effect should be changed or more exaggerated...

1) True, but there is a limitation to the amount of cover the mapper can place or the game will slow to a crawl.
2) Also true, but there is also a lag between you poking your head up and when the enemy actually sees you poke your head up, where you have a free shot at his face before he can react/sees it.
3) If the red splatter effect covered up your sights it would make it much more difficult to shoot.