Why do people dislike 4km maps?

[Farks]

The majority of the new maps are armor heavy, which I really dislike. Burning Sands is, along with Kashan, one of the worst maps ever made for infantry. It's far too open and there's no cover on the approach to objectives you either get shot by a tank or mowed down by an AR whilst trying to get there.

How often do you see a tank or APC driving around raping everyone in sight? (thanks thermal!) Anyone seen the scores on some of these vehicles? A guy had 50+ kills and 2 deaths on a server I joined.

When a team is doing bad and there's no transport 4km maps are also a pain as you have to run for what seems like forever, only to get insta killed when you get anywhere near the battle.

I really hope that this issue is addressed in the Arma II version of PR, the maps there are so much bigger, I couldn't imagine having to run for an hour just to get into the area of combat.

There's realism and there's fun, as it is with the current map rotation on the servers it seems like more of a chore to play.

And what does this have to do with mapsize? Nobody has ever claimed it's a good idea for infantry to move over open desert (or any open ground for that matter), especially when there's enemy armor around.

Some maps are more focused on infantry, and some are more focused on armor/air. That's just the way PR is.

[ghostfool84]

I play Infantry most of the time for example last evening Iron Eagle was running on the Server. If the Transport Choppers are down you waste your time in the base till the next one spawns and hopefully he will flight for more than 10 Minutes. Supply Trucks are scarce and APC Transport ist most of the time far away and it takes several minutes till they come back to base. But who needs to cap the flags? Not all the Tanks and fancy helicopters...the infantry must do it, but there is no Transport Truck or a simply humvee to move out of base or away from an old fob when flags changes. Moving as Infantry is most deadly and takes a lot of time. Thats why i dont like some 4km maps cause when Transport is bad all you can do is waiting in base or you must take a tank or a Helicopter like all the others...

[[T]waylay00]

To be honest, it's because most of our society wants everything immediately. There is little patience. Everyone wants things now, and this translates to PR map preferences. Why do you think games like Counter Strike have sold so extremely well? Instant shoot 'em up action. Why was Karkand the most played map on BF2 vanilla? Instant action. Why did EA/DICE make the Battlefield series progressively more like MW2 and less like its original forefather (BF1942)? People want instant action.

It's really a shame. The 4km maps, IMO, are way more fun than the smaller maps, but sometimes you have to have a little patience. Sure, you might have to hike for 20 minutes on foot to get where you are going. But to me, this type of situation adds a really cool suspenseful element to gameplay.

[pfhatoa]

I suck at shooting so I like 4km map quite much. Lovely scenery and when transport is right it just shine. However some 4km maps is suffering of the "too may assets" issue leading to booring infantry action. Few enemies on foot, and many hard targets.

[Kain888]

4km are the best.

A lot of teamwork requirement, they are a lot less deathmathish than small maps. You have to be really good at tactics and think about movement, a lot more opportunities to flank and attack/defend = more thinking.
To sum this up - they are realistic more than smaller maps where you can just lemming rush enemy.

IMO 4km maps are the best suit for PR and I hope we will see more of them.

[Zerostar11]

Only time 4km maps have been amazing fun for me was in the PRT, in pubbie servers they are average at best.

[Cassius]

Only time 4km maps have been amazing fun for me was in the PRT, in pubbie servers they are average at best.

PR Pubbie play is less than average usually period. PR is a teamoriented game and just like with footie or egghand you need people who play with each other on a regular basis for a good game, else the coordination is not that good. Usually that means picking one or 3 servers and sticking with them.

They can be boring at times, but then there are the times where you have 60 min of building/defending, followed by 15 min of total frenzy with Armor Aviation and infantery that makes up for it.

[Ford_Jam]

To be honest, it's their layout.
Kashan is a great 4km map because it has a central fighting area (bunkers) with heaps of cover, FB locations, all of which can be exploited by armour/inf on the hills flanking the east and west side. The longer view distance and ample amount of assets also generally means you engage the enemy quite a bit. Additionally, there are lots of flags to cap and they are set, not random CP's, occaisionally meaning an inf squad can walk between objectives without too much hassle. (This is also evident with Yamalia with it's linear-ish set of random flags)

SEagle doesn't quite follow this but I find it to be an occaisionally enjoyable 4km map. However it can have its extremely "meh" moments.

Other 4km maps (Quinling, reserving judgement on the new ones until I've played them) don't really follow the above, sure change is nice but rounds can be very dull. IIRC Quinling has four CP's (two main flags and two randomly placed flags), when the two flags to be capped are far away it becomes harder to make engagements for various reasons (distance, lack of enemies, lack of FB's). I think the objectives are also, in a way, meaningless. You're fighting over hills (Yamalia suffers the same problem), you aren't fighting over bunkers, or a missle silo, or central village, you're on a mound of dirt with very little cover.

Just my two cents.

+1 for Psyrus as well, he's a genius

[Spartan0189]

I love 4km maps, simply because there is a lot of assets and such to take, and (in the case of Burning Sands and Silent Eagle) has open and city environments to suit everyone's preference.

[goguapsy]

I have always been more of a fan of infantry-targeted gameplay, such as Muttrah and any other insurgency map.

However, I agree. The PR epicness is within 4km maps. But, as Rhino put in, it is hard for the avg pub server to do this, because of the lack of teamwork.

I would add another theory, though... I could play Kashan 32 all the time, but I dislike the 64 version. I think it is specially because I'm not the only INF squad around.

And that's what makes insurgency so much fun (especially with the accurate markers): much more intense infantry-oriented gameplay. Take Kokan, for example. Perfect balance between CAS, Mech, Mortars and Infantry. You will succeed if you use the 4, but, in a worst-case scenario, 1 well-organized squad can still do wonders, without ruining the gameplay. I've played as Taliban, I've played as US Army. And I've enjoyed a lot, both of the times.

[EmBra]

I like 4km maps, I like being able to do a long flanking manoeuvres so I can surprise the enemy.

I like operating a vehicle as much as I like the feeling of taking out enemy vehicles when I play as infantry.

Large maps demands greater teamwork though but I don't think that is a bad thing.

[crot]

I love Kashan and Iron Eagle, dont know wacha talking about.

[Imchicken1]

It's the fact that 4km maps tend to favor assets such as armour and aircraft. Not everyone enjoys armour and aircraft. There's very few "fun" places like the bunkers of Kashan, or the village of SEagle for infantry to manouver or defend. Iron Eagle (imo) is one of the best 4km maps, as it has all the assets, and many points of interest for infantry (villages, a city, many hills, and cave bunkers)

Yamalia, Quin-ling, and Wanda Shan dont really have large, or enough points of interest for infantry. Sure, there's a couple villages, power stations, lakes, windmills, guard towers, etc... It's just not enough for infatry. The low lands on Yamalia make it more interesting for Infatry to "ninja" around, but otherwise its just tree's after trees

I personally LOVE 4km maps, as i tend to be an asset addicted. And playing as infantry is also very entertaining. If there's transport, and armour/CAS is willing to support infantry, i'm more than willing to SM

[Bonsai]

I think for many 4km maps the avg public server dosen't have enough team work on them to make a 4km map fun. On a small map, all you really need is inner squad teamwork to be fun while on a 4km map, your relying much more on other squads to work with you to complete an objective and a lot of the time you can't except that on an avg public server. You really need a mumble only server or a server that strives towards teamwork all the time (or better yet, both) to really get the foundations you need to make a 4km map really enjoyable and most servers simply dont go for that.

When a 4km map is played right, it can easily be the best gameplay you will see in PR but if its played wrong then it turns into a really boring environment where you can't really do much on your own or as a squad that can make a real impact on the battle like you can on a 2km or smaller map.

---> THIS!

The 4km maps are mostly combined arms maps. Which means you have to co-ordinate infantry, amrour and in most cases air assets. Therefore a single suqad doing good means nothing. And thanks God and Allah and everybody else PR is creating a unbalanced asset layout at the same time. So you have to adapt to a special type of gameplay affected by the assets/fraction you are playing and at the same time you are dependent on team-sized coordinated teamplay.

That is indeed a challenge for every public game.

[fuzzhead]

I think 4km maps with reduced heavy assets is best gameplay PR has to offer.

No servers putting them up yet, but I would LOVE to see a server running a map rotation with mostly 4km maps in infantry mode.

[Imchicken1]

I think 4km maps with reduced heavy assets is best gameplay PR has to offer.

No servers putting them up yet, but I would LOVE to see a server running a map rotation with mostly 4km maps in infantry mode.

TG tends to play quite a bit of inf layer 4km maps

[Deer]

I think 4km maps with reduced heavy assets is best gameplay PR has to offer.

No servers putting them up yet, but I would LOVE to see a server running a map rotation with mostly 4km maps in infantry mode.

I think it depends on how much you play PR, 4km maps are fun if you play few times in a month, but for a player who plays many hours almost every day its not fun anymore. Even the long walks as infantry in 4km maps are boring, players tolerate it to a point and even enjoys it, but players who play alot of PR crosses that point very quickly and then they cant be arsed to walk so long distances anymore, its just too much walking day after day.

Another option for walking would be to use vehicle, but 4km maps often doesnt have even nearly enough "infantry vehicles" which doesnt require crewmankit.. i have seen loads of tanks and APCs in iron eagle in MEC mainbase, but noone takes them even when their squad is stuck in the mainbase, they dont want to use vehicles they want to be infantry even they cant get anywhere due to lack of transports (mec has only 1 transport vehicle in the whole map).

But even with vehicles there is a point how much you can enjoy such a massive traveling distances, and players who play daily, crosses that point quite fast and then they cant be arsed to play 4km maps so much for a while.

Most functional and replayable map size seems to be 2km map where large part of the area is not being used for battles but is still being used for traveling. Many good or "popular" maps are exactly like this if you think about it =)

[Silly_Savage]

Maybe instead of walking, they should ask for transport from others? You know, like, teamwork? I hear it's much quicker than walking.

[Psyrus]

Maybe instead of walking, they should ask for transport from others? You know, like, teamwork? I hear it's much quicker than walking.

Did you miss the part about transport in his post?

[Silly_Savage]

You mean the part where he says he believes there is a lack of "infantry vehicles" that don't require the crewman kit? Such as, transport trucks and clown cars?

As far as I know, the military doesn't roll into battle in 5 tons and a couple of thin-skinned jeeps. That's the whole reason the APC was born. Use them. There's a reason they are in the mod, and it's not for being used as light-tanks.

If you have to walk, it's because your team doesn't have their shit together. Period.

No disrespect intended, but I believe adding more "infantry vehicles" is not the right approach to take.

Anyways, this is starting to head off-topic. Lets get back on track.