Severe "pacification" of the community

[ma21212]

If you people think its so cheap then you go buy some new parts for people who cant run PR well. Some people cant buy new parts even with a job b/c of family issues and other stuff (you work on a 8.40 sallary and you still got enough money left over meaning you live with your parents who keep a roof and food over your head and on your table in other words you got nothing to worry about in terms of buying food and paying bills) Also the fact is that PR needs to be optimized even for people with ok to good specs. I used to be one of the few people who could barely run PR but now I have a new computer which pwns PR but guess what I still have sympathy for the rest. its really not fair to just say "well tough luck if you cant play"

[Zimmer]

Right the bashing of people with no money has started again,

Truth be told, i dont have any money to buy new parts, Im an intern and one that apperently doesnt have the right to any compensation whatsoever. The only income i have is Governement funding for my college, now you arent seriously suggesting that i put that money into buying a new computer JUST so i can play that move i love to play every so often to get my mind of things do you?

he says he is sick of people posting their problems with money here and blaming the devs for all their own problems/lack of money etc. Nothing about those with no money that dont whine about them not having money.

[CallousDisregard]

Its just a sign of a popular game. If there are people who care so much about it as to post that kind of thread, then it means that PR means a great deal to them (and, presumably, many many others who havn't posted those threads but have thought the same thing). If they complain about how the changes have (or will, if posted before they have had a chance to fully test them) ruined the game, then there are clearly a significant number of people liked the old (or current) version.

Its basically them saying how much they love PR, certainly nothing to get upset about. It certainly a sign of a healthy community when people dont want the game to change, and far better than apathy or encouragement of change for the sake of relief from stale gameplay.

That is a wonderful way to look at it and I thank you for providing a more positive outlook on the situation.

[TheOldBreed]

when i first saw the thread title, thoughts of an eastern-european style 'cleansing' came to mind haha. but i completely agree with you man, some people aren't grateful for the hours put in for a free mod.

[Masaq]

I have sympathy for both points of view, here:

1) The underlying game is now five years old, and has an underlying engine is eight years old. In modern software terms, it's Old. Eight years ago, Windows XP was very new and shiny indeed, for example. Eight years ago, I'm pretty sure that my family were using Win98SE on our PCs at home. Most people probably were.

Now think about that for a moment - how many of you, who are complaining about the poor performance of PR, are running it on Win98SE? I'd be very surprised if anyone is, very, very surprised. Think about Win98SE for a moment... it coming back to you just how old and creaky that OS is, in modern terms? Well, that's somewhat equivalent to how old Refractor 2 is, in modern terms.

We are pushing it way beyond intended performance. Battlefield 2 was pretty much *the* benchmark game in 2005, rather like Crysis when it first came out (and still is, to a degree). It could bring machines to their knees... and then hardware got better, and it became easily possible to run BF2 with a framerate of over 800FPS if you dropped your settings to minimum and ran it on a top-end PC... and slowly, over time, PC has caught up again and can once again make the game stress computers out.

Let's be honest - partially that is because some areas of the game aren't especially well optimised, could be cleaned up a little better and we're pretty sure we can make some savings in some areas. We have some assets that are a little tricky, and they're headed for replacement. Yes, there's more we can do to make it run smoother - and we are doing it. However, as hardware has progressed so has the software; we're making the software call ever harder on your hardware and I'm sorry but a sad fact of PC gaming is that there is a technology curve and games tend to sit right on the peak of that curve. We can't ever make BF2 look as gorgeous as Rise of Flight, but we'll get as close as we damn well can, and you really can't hold that against us - because if we didn't do it, you'd still be playing BF2 and best of luck to you.

Hardware IS cheap comparatively, these-days, and it doesn't take a monster rig to run PR well. Yes we need to optimise more but if you're running on Lowest settings and you're still only pulling 5FPS, that's probably a sign your rig needs an update. I doubt you can run ANY newly released game on your rig, for example?



2) All that said, community members should not be made to feel inferior or demeaned as people for having insufficient hardware. Many players are not in control of their PC budget - I wasn't until I left home and went to Uni - and parents tend to look baffled when you explain you need a GeForce 470 or an HD5870 to help you with homework. For many of those who do control their budget, it's not always a case of being able to simply save up and spare an extra bit of cash for PC upgrades.

Unless you've actually lived for a period of time on the point at which you really don't know if you can pay the rent this month, you have no idea how ridiculous being told to save up for a new PC really is. A household budget really can need every single last pound, penny, dollar or cent - and telling someone that they "Even $200 will get you a decent upgrade" can be utterly laughable if $200 is money that will feed them and their family for a month.




Both sides need to drop a little attitude, to be honest. The team has a commitment to always improving the performance of the mod because as it should be abundantly clear - if the game runs like shit thanks to memory leaks it doesn't matter a jot how good the models look. We DO try to keep things optimised and you can expect improvements in this area over the coming releases - but if you're running a rig built in 2005 and expect PR to play like vBF2 did back then, you need to accept that you can't have PR's content without a change in performance. There's a reason that modern PCs come with 4Gb of memory, y'know?

Likewise, if the game runs for you - that's great, and congratulations on being in the tiny proportion of the human population who has a high-end PC. Billions don't, so please don't expect everyone who comes in here to be able to spend a few hundred quick on upgrades.


TLDR Version:
If you're having problems on a decent spec machine - be patient, ask for help, troubleshoot it thoroughly and I'm sure the tech guys will help all they can. If you're having problems on a low-spec machine - sorry, but that's how PC ownership is... we're doing our best but ultimately we're not about to strip out lots of content to be keep it running smoothly on an Athlon 1700+ with 2Gb of PC400. If you can run the game fine and people are moaning that their elderly rigs can't handle it - walk on by.

[RedAlertSF]

The game industry doesn't wait for people to upgrade their computers. PR shouldn't wait either.

[Zpoilt]

The game industry doesn't wait for people to upgrade their computers. PR shouldn't wait either.

The game industry makes games with environments so beautiful people are amazed by how nice they are. PR is not. PR is a hell of alot nicer than vBF2 but compared to lets say Arma2, or Crysis as brought up above, it doesnt stand a chance. For instance, PR has a max view distance of about 700 meters while Arma2 has pushed it to 10 000. I get a better fps in Arma with 2000 meters view distance and everything on medium including max resolution than I do in BF2 with view distance capped to only 90% and settings on low on Fallujah or Korengal. My point is PR isnt nearly as good looking as ARMA2 and still requires a better PC. Crysis also has a better flow on my computer than PR does.

I love PR. I do not like Arma2, I just used it as an example. PR is not as good looking as it "should be" compared to the system requirements. I for one dont care much for the graphics. I would be happy if devs made the game uglier to increase performance. To me it's the gameplay that matters and I belive that is something most people agree on. I mean, if it all came down to graphics no one would play PR. Not saying you devs have made an ugly game because with the BF2 engine you really have performed miracles. Sure, nicer graphics with longer view distance and better textures is nice and all but it's not by far as important as a good flow in-game.

The players make the game, not the graphical experience and if we as a community lose 1 good SL because his PC cant handle a game it should handle over a 100 meters view distance increase, then it's just sad and I'd prefer it if those 100 meters disappeared.

[Bringerof_D]

has it ever occurd to you that we dont want to have to leave. my computer is 3 years old, ive had to upgrad it a little with every build. its now at its limit if i try and add anything else, its going to fry it.

now i happen to live with my parents as a full time student. i have no income and i cant buy a new computer. i would love to see what Fallujah West looks like with the settings maxed out.

i dont want to stop playing, for the most part its a great game. but i have not seen the outside of the base on Lashkar Valley. i have NEVER seen Dragonfly or Iron Ridge. i have stopped playing because i cant keep up.

good money sense would have suggested, play less for a few months and save up for one massive upgrade, or a new comp. if your computer "NEEDS" an upgrade, dont take baby steps, go for a leap. baby steps means you'll be taking another one really soon. with a leap you have some breathing room and for the most part spend less money in the long run.

one of the biggest problems isnt the new things the devs added, but the engine itself. every moment the game is running, the computer has to fish through a mass of disorganized code, back in the old days all programming was well organized since computers weren't powerful enough to go through everything. But now that computer technology has gone this far, game developers just dont care anymore. computers can do it just fine, and no one else is supposed to be going through and making changes anyways, thus they dont bother to optimize.

[Snazz]

Regardless of optimization, PR maps generally have much higher object density and terrain detail than ArmA2 maps.

ArmA2 has nice lighting but the environments are quite bland. The objects only look good right up close, at a distance they're heavily simplified. As the view distance is turned up the objects stop appearing after a while and beyond them is just plain terrain.

[LithiumFox]

Again, like i stated, i'm not upset by the fact that people can't afford to keep up.

It's the fact that they complain cause the devs don't support their not-so-good computer anymore, and act like PR was never going to get slightly out of their range.

What irks me:

Farewell! I'm leaving this mod because my computer can't handle it and they added all these new guns that make it feel ridiculous, it's feeling like CoD now. I blame all these new guns for why it's running slower on my system, plus you don't need to add any new maps or factions. This is just getting ridiculous so I'm leaving. Thank you for the fun, but the devs have ruined this game! They no longer follow their own core beliefs, so I'm done with this. Kthxbai!

- Sarcastic Paraphrase



._. Had they just said

So yeah.. my computer can't handle it anymore, so i'm going to have to leave the PR scene for now, until i can afford a new one. It's been great playing with some of you guys! D: Hopefully i can get something to run it, or maybe play other games with you guys!

> > No irrelevant insults. I'm fine with bashing the devs, cause they need to be humbled sometimes but it's the irrelevant blame-game that irritates me. It's kind of like politics today.

[Masaq]

I love PR. I do not like Arma2, I just used it as an example. PR is not as good looking as it "should be" compared to the system requirements. I for one dont care much for the graphics. I would be happy if devs made the game uglier to increase performance. To me it's the gameplay that matters and I belive that is something most people agree on. I mean, if it all came down to graphics no one would play PR. Not saying you devs have made an ugly game because with the BF2 engine you really have performed miracles. Sure, nicer graphics with longer view distance and better textures is nice and all but it's not by far as important as a good flow in-game.

It's not just the graphical quality that's limiting performance, though. There's plenty of other factors - such as the increase in effects, the additional scripting and coding that has to take place to get the gameplay you want.

That stuff slows down PCs just like higher polycounts do

[LithiumFox]

Exactly.

I'm not the richest guy int he world... but i have priorities. Maybe not the best priorities.. but hey, PR is worth it.

[Hawkeye92]

My computer can handle PR just fine. My main complaint is that I haven't been able to play at all since the new release. My loading is constantly stuck at 0% and NO one seems to have a solution for the issue yet.

[naykon]

wow... this threads amazing..

If you have time to post great big posts about a free mod that's too taxing on your decrepit PC then you have time to go out and earn some coin

quit whining... it's almost 2011, upgrade your computers!

[quaazi]

I'm gonna stay right out of the debate if poorer people don't deserve to play PR (because that's what it is), but I want to ask a different question. What rational is behind the devteam choosing to spend time and resources making minor cosmetic changes to existing weapons models, vehicles, whatever, rather than improving gameplay/introducing new gameplay elements (not that they haven't been introduced enough... god I am starting to love the mortars more and more) and other similar things. When I play PR after an update, what I hear from chatter is "wow let's use the mortars they're pretty damn cool" or "let's make an armour squad and use the new thermal imaging" or even "boy I sure am glad they finally balanced the kits so that insurgents don't get to use SAWs", as an example of subtle, coding changes. I do not hear "boy howdy look at this new G3 model, it's so much more better than the old one". They're... they're unimportant additions. The only time I see people discussing them is when they're showcased in the highlights section. That's it. Is the constant addition of purrdier shiny things really that necessary?

[joethepro36]

My biggest gripe is having limits on the view distance because people can't accept they'll take performance hits when going to a new version like with Silent Eagle for instance and .9 in general. I had on my mediocre system zero problems with any maps but have turned down graphical settings to accommodate the increased amounts of graphical detail with the most striking being the use of RAM forcing me down to low textures/terrain. I find it greatly annoying that a map like Kashan can't have a 2km view distance because of stuff like this as view distance imo is the greatest barrier to realism currently.

And for the love of god please no "poor people should be allowed to play too" arguments. As an unemployed 19 old year with next to no money on a constant basis, if I can keep a system capable of PR running then so should everyone. It really comes down to where your interests are when you're poor, you have different hobbies but can't afford them all so you pick one.

[LithiumFox]

My biggest gripe is having limits on the view distance because people can't accept they'll take performance hits when going to a new version like with Silent Eagle for instance and .9 in general.

But for some people, like me, who do have a high end system, this caused issue.

I blame the new longer-drawdistance kits.

=/ Probably not optimized enough for how long distance they are... XD

[CallousDisregard]

The poor ?

[Psyko]

the developers dont make the mod for yous they make it for themselves, individually. people arnt motivated by a sense of philanthropy and the warm fuzzy feeling inside, most devs love trolling and being tards. i has witniz it foist hand. they do it to expand their own knowlege and to play somthing in their spare time that they enjoy more. more because firstly they made it, and secondly because to them its better than fragfest games.

im tired of people saying, "stop complaining about the mod, you cant make a game so dont criticise what these guys are doing." most people say that but dont understand why they are actually saying it. they might say it because they saw sombody else saying it once and they just go with it.

criticism is the life blood of disiplined development, without it this mod would be shite. and yes, in the end we are all a society of armchair critics, but every time i play this game i thank god for sending us tards who vomit complaints at the forum, (and to a lesser extend the mods who vomit back at them) because for the last few years every time a thread is reposted or a link is stickied or a post is quoted, the repitition of success and also of failure characterises the democratic method to which this mod has been so successful.

so when sombody posts, "omg this mod is so slow on my PC" or "or how do i build a firebase" or the age old "can has fastropes pl0x??1@!" remember that this is digitsed ambrosia, and that these people comments are just as important as your "oh god im sick of noobs troll troll trollololol"

But yea, noobs should shut up about their old assed PCs.