Page 2 of 7
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-30 17:53
by Celestial1
Wonder if it's possible to make the tank's turret actually arc the shot according to the distance of the target being aimed at.
It would mean that if you fire when not aimed perfectly on the chopper, the round would actually fly really high above the helicopter because it's targeting "nothingness". The helicopter would have to be pretty near to hovering for you to hit (because you can't lead the shot, since you'll be targeting the sky).
Probably a pipe dream (read: nightmare to implement), and may not be realistic (I sure as heck don't know how FCSes actually work), but it's a thought I had.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-30 20:02
by Mora
FCS Don't work on the BF2 engine afaik. It does on BF2142 tho.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-30 20:34
by Celestial1
Mora wrote:FCS Don't work on the BF2 engine afaik. It does on BF2142 tho.
What are you referring to specifically of the FCS? I am only referring to the main cannon aiming itself up/down based on the angle it would need to fire at to hit the target.
I know that the full concept of an FCS hasn't yet been solved/may not be possible, but it would appear that all the pieces are in place (calculating distance, projectiles firing from somewhere other than the center of the screen), though of course I'll make no assumptions of whether it's possible or not to actually wire all that together to get it, nor if FCSes IRL actually function that way.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-30 20:45
by Andy[EEF]
Celestial1 wrote:What are you referring to specifically of the FCS? I am only referring to the main cannon aiming itself up/down based on the angle it would need to fire at to hit the target.
I know that the full concept of an FCS hasn't yet been solved/may not be possible, but it would appear that all the pieces are in place (calculating distance, projectiles firing from somewhere other than the center of the screen), though of course I'll make no assumptions of whether it's possible or not to actually wire all that together to get it, nor if FCSes IRL actually function that way.
Lol Mosquill
YouTube - PR: Thermal Imaging, Turret Stabilization and FCS
Hardcoded? what's that?
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-30 21:17
by Celestial1
Yes, yes, I know full well of that video.
But Mosquill also mentions in the comments turret stabilization didn't work on a dedicated server, which I considered to be a very big part of that package (maybe it's not considered as part of the FCS from a technical standpoint, but that's what I was it considering as). Also, it would appear that it doesn't account for leading of the target while on the move (it looks like he's leading the targets himself), and I don't know whether an FCS does that or not. The video also doesn't show if there was any awkwardness or any problems with the system (like what happens when firing at the sky), or overall how it works, which is why I stated it the way I did.
I leave it as "hasn't yet been solved/may not be possible" until it's put into full use.
That said, yes, it's cool, and may provide the solution.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-30 22:25
by Zoddom
watch out for off topic.
@andy&dev:
.......stop just posting to show how L33TASJFH/($"?=)$ you are !!!!!!!
OFC IF YOURE A GOD YOUC AN DO EVERYTHING!
I mentioned that its TOO (unrealistically) difficult!
well i guess it would be the best and the easiest if they would jsut decrease the max elevation of vehicles.
i found this on a website about the abrams:
The Line of Sight excursion range is -16 to +22 degrees in elevation
thats not very much, as you can see in my picture, and i got the feeling, ingame it can aim like 60? in elevetion....
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-30 23:13
by Hunt3r
FCS doesn't really work without stabilization, and would actually be worse than the current system on the move.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-31 15:33
by STORM-Mama
Dev1200 wrote:
If you have the proper team, you can do plenty with the attack chopper
This.
And without the "proper team" they are close to useless. Just as it should be in a game like this.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-31 17:05
by Hotrod525
I know that Combined Arm proved that Radar is possible... however, i dont beleive R-Dev will implent it, Air attacking assets and Anti-air assets will be realisticly overpowerfull. May be a day, but not for now.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-10-31 19:17
by Celestial1
Zoddom wrote:.......stop just posting to show how L33TASJFH/($"?=)$ you are !!!!!!!
OFC IF YOURE A GOD YOUC AN DO EVERYTHING!
I mentioned that its TOO (unrealistically) difficult!
PR has never really catered to players who couldn't handle the difficulty of the game...
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 02:13
by Zoddom
Celestial1 wrote:PR has never really catered to players who couldn't handle the difficulty of the game...
you just disrespectfully disregarded my post. i said stop OT and stop flaming.
i never said i cant handle the game, i bet shit of my *** that i play for longer than you, now what? YEAH IM RIGHT
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 03:07
by DankE_SPB
Zoddom wrote:i found this on a website about the abrams:
thats not very much, as you can see in my picture, and i got the feeling, ingame it can aim like 60? in elevetion....
All vehicles(or almost all) have realistic elevation\depression angles and its for sure not 60 on Abrams
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 03:31
by Zoddom
[R-DEV]DankE_SPB wrote:All vehicles(or almost all) have realistic elevation\depression angles and its for sure not 60 on Abrams
hm, but how is it possible that a tank whichs is close to maximum visible range can kill me when im 300m high...
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 03:51
by DankE_SPB
Terrain is not flat
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 06:23
by lukeyu2005
But this would not be so much of a problem if they used actual gunship tactics like hide behind a ridge line pop up engage all that is a threat to the chopper and then duck back down if in danger. After that you should be safe to do what ever until armored reinforcements show up. then just repeat.
The attack choppers are not underpowered all helicopters are fragile just keep your distance and use cover.
Like how you don't stand in the middle of no where and fire from the hip.
You also shouldn't hover in the middle of no where.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 06:34
by Celestial1
Zoddom wrote:you just disrespectfully disregarded my post. i said stop OT and stop flaming.
i never said i cant handle the game, i bet shit of my *** that i play for longer than you, now what? YEAH IM RIGHT
It's not off topic, and it's not flaming.
You mentioned that it was too difficult, and I responded that PR has never been a mod that tries to be easy, infact more often it's the exact opposite.
OH NOES THREATENIN ME OVER THE INTERNETS. YEAH UR RITE.
Chill out, brother. We can measure e-penis length later.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 08:38
by scharf
This is surely as powerful as helis are going to get so i imagine your going to have to deal with it... i have no idea how a tank manages to kill you if your at 650+ unless he has seen you and managed to get onto a slope where he can angle his gun up so even after all that your gunner hasnt seen him you deserve to die....
the only thing left to be done with helis is increase the flare count
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 09:25
by dtacs
lukeyu2005 wrote:But this would not be so much of a problem if they used actual gunship tactics like hide behind a ridge line pop up engage all that is a threat to the chopper and then duck back down if in danger. After that you should be safe to do what ever until armored reinforcements show up. then just repeat.
The attack choppers are not underpowered all helicopters are fragile just keep your distance and use cover.
Like how you don't stand in the middle of no where and fire from the hip.
You also shouldn't hover in the middle of no where.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and I'd be surprised if you've played this game at all. Having an Apache/Havok 'hide behind a ridge' and pop up is one of the stupidest and most unrealistic things you can do.
Or I just got trolled, either one.
Re: Attack Helicopters too underpowered
Posted: 2010-11-01 13:24
by Zoddom
Engineer wrote:Dtacs, I suppose he means that if those tactics would work in PR, which they don't, we wouldn't have a problem. Or then you are right...
If the problem is "Attack helicopters are too underpowered in insurgency" then there might be grounds for complaint, but if it would be "Attack helicopters are too underpowered against conventional forces" I'd assume that's the harsh reality.
Flying on a chopper sky high in direct contact conventional warfare where modern AA is known to be present... I doubt it would happen, not sure if helicopters would even be deployed in such situations at all. In insurgency operations this however is the preferred tactic because of obvious reasons...
But in PR we only have this one tactic which seems to be realistic for one type of operations and unrealistic for other, but it is the only tactic in PR which gives the better odds for chopper pilots to stay alive.
But I think it is rather good now if we come to think of it... For example, choppers should have a reason to be worried about AA.
I used bold text because this is all my assumption how it would go, I'm sure the final say is for mil. advisors or people who really know this.
well, but my point was that helis are too underpowered against heavy armor, not AA.
and IRL, helcopter ARE overpowered, at least against the sort of AA we have ingame, hellfire range is about ... 6-8 km? and a handheld igla about ...max. 5km i think.
too bad they replaced the tunguska with the strela mtlb, cause tunguskas just pwn shit in comparison to a strela.
@danke:
yeah , but it happened to me on burning sands :/