Suggestions to improve Insurgency.

[Tarranauha200]

Kick/Ban for killing civis? This WILL be abused. Civis will hide in building full of insurgents and when tank fires in it: "You have killed 3 Civilians outside ROE, auto-kick"
Also civis riding on back of the gary. Maybe spawn time should be increased but kick/ban is little too much.

About suicide vehicles having 1 seat. There can be extra person for backup in case driver gets killed.

Good post 1+

[bromley]

I have to say that as a frequent Kiowa pilot it is far too easy killing civies, especially when hitting a laze, I'm not going to hold back on raining hydras because there might be civi in a building

[Bunnyman]

Having a passenger seat in a suicide vehicle can be useful for moral support. 'Just think of all those virgins'- and then he jumps out.

[Canuck]

"1. First, when a BLUFOR player kills a Collaborator outside of ROE, he/she will receive a private message warning him/her of not to kill Collaborators outside of ROE and to arrest them with either restrainers or a shotgun. When a BLUFOR player kills two Collaborators outside of the ROE, he/she will be auto-kicked from the server. If he/she rejoins and kills another Collaborator, he/she will be auto-banned for the duration of the round. Yes, this suggestion sounds harsh, but it will help curb people?s attitudes toward Collaborators."

I love playing Collaborators. Yes, Blufor needs to work on it a bit more - I find many don't understand the ROE, etc. I stood on top of a building with my hands up and had all sorts of infantry killing me.

Your first suggestion is a bit harsh though, although I understand the intention. A few players on your side not knowing/understanding the collaborators can severely hamper the round for the rest of Blufor (which is why I think you are suggesting the kick). Problem with it is, as a Collaborator, players learn tips and tricks to make it tough on Blufor.

I routinely run into tanks and other moving vehicles as they drive by. Yes, the easy way around it is to not drive around insurgents, but if you don't, it's a nice setup for an easy RPG kill. I believe it works if you run into enemy mortar fire as well - which I think is a little OP to have a single Collaborator able to 'halt' mortar attacks.

I will also 'guard' RPG guys - standing between them and a tank - so the tank can't fire back without hitting me. The tank has a tough decision - slow their own respawn, not get another kit for 10 minutes, or risk death from an RPG.

Yes, there are in game ways around this (using infantry to support the tank, keeping vehicles outside of towns)

Basically, Collaborators have a lot of power in controlling the battlefield if respected and used correctly. Heck, I played once in a full squad of just collaborators.
It's a fun kit to play, and last round I played I believe I was killed outside of ROE 12-15 times and only arrested 2x. At one point 45 minutes into the match over half the team had a negative score (there were a few Collaborators 'enjoying' the gameplay.

(while I think #1 is a bit punishing, I do agree with limiting them to squads, and only 1 kit per squad if it's doable.)

The only suggestion I think Collaborators should get is Team points for getting killed outside of ROE =) The rest should come down to education and tips for Blufor to fully understand what happens when they kill a Collaborator. I'm pretty certain, through gameplay experience, many either don't fully understand or just don't care.

[bromley]

I am not willing to ask a spotter to run into a cache building to verify that there's no collaborators in that building b4 I light it up

[BenHamish]

At the moment in Pub servers civvy's always get shot on sight. I've got tired of spawn-spamming as civvy, it does nothing to aid my (insurgents) game.

The Unknowns are always spawned at/known by the Blufor, so what's the point in them losing Intel points?

Also on that topic, as has been mentioned, tanks (and Kiowa) are used as demolition devices, to flatten villages and expose the cache.

Pretty much can't see the advantage in civvys, apart from acting as squad medics/grapplers. In an organised (disciplined) game however, I bet they rock.


EditL: **** didn't notice the other 2x pages! Sorry if i've gone over the same ground/whathaveyou.

Ok, just read the replies, and I hate to add to the generally unconstructive and negative comments found on the Suggestions Board but..

It's obvious that the people here posting against some of these ideas normally play Blufor, and have a very lax attitude towards killing civilians.

No offense Bromley, but if you're willing to just nuke a house even if there might be civvy's in it because the groundwork hasn't been done for your attack then you deserve harsh punishment.


It's a shame to see that even amongst the experienced players found on these forums, killing Civvys is fine. If they have a load of civvy's on the cache it's obviously fine to just shoot them all with a tank. If there are a few civvy's in a building with some Jihadists, it's fine, just slap some Hydras in there.

Why not just get rid of the Civvy kit? It's quite apparent that it does not satisfy it's intended uses.

[bromley]

I can not help what your spotter can not see or do. You will have to look for another source to attack the cache building.

I have no intentions of not hitting a cache building in my kiowa just because theres a guy in it who is considered VIP

theres a fine line between reality and a game. And this is a game

[Wakain]

very interesting suggestions dv83r, your first suggestion seems to have run into (often not too reasonable) oppossition. I too think that a kick on second collaborator is a little harsh, but more than just punishing with tickets seems a very good idea. I'm thinking of a warning message when hurting a collaborator, perhaps the screen goes black as well, just like it would when you enter a vehicleposition you can't use only temporarily without kill.
that kill could come when killing a collaborator, or killing the second collaborator, representing getting arrested for reprimanded back home for misbehaviour in the field or something like that. of course such a kill, as well as a kick or a temp. ban would leave heavy assets unmanned in weird places, generally a complete waste of assets and undesirable. people would have to take care a lot before pulling any trigger.

also, I myself saw the collaborator more as a parttime insurgent, defying the blufor unarmed and taking up arms behind their backs. your idea of denying them the use of vehicle positions or weapons seems a good move as well.

tell me what you think, now I'm off to learning again, big exam tomorrow

[Psyrus]

Actually I have no intentions of not hitting a cache building in my kiowa just because theres a guy in it who is considered VIP

Well then you're hurting your team by bleeding them of 10 intel points

[Ins] I love running into mortar fire, griefing AAVs that can't turn around fast enough to escape my sprinty goodness, baiting bluforce and observing for my teammates when I'm not being gunned down as a martyr.

[Bluforce] I also love the smug sense of satisfaction when I have the specialist kit shotgun one of them to death, since I have the foresight to bring one along if I'm a SL or have a SL on mumble/TS that can come shoot the buggers.

They're an excellent counter to the OP bluforce arsenal, serving as a mitigating factor to relentless bombardment from tanks, choppers, APCs, mortars, TOWs/HMGs and whatever else they might be throwing at you. Get three of you together with a bit of protection and get martyred a few times and it's basically a big LOL @ the bluforce not getting intel for the rest of the round

Loving it just the way it is

[bromley]

Well then you're hurting your team by bleeding them of 10 intel points

while killing a cache worth 30 tickets

profit? yes.

[BenHamish]

If Kiowa is up Bluefor don't need intel Points, they can just observe the ill-disciplined mass of civvys/RPGs on the nearest rooftop.

Hence we need a proper (effective) penalty for killing Civvy's. The entire point of the Civvy kit is so that Blufor can't fire indiscriminately.

As for baiting Blufor, it works only if the squad has no Specialist. A squad without a specialist on a city map? no way.

[USMCMIDN]

Where I play you are allowed to borrow certain kits excluding medic/automatic rifleman/rifleman specialist from squads as long as you get the squad leader's permission to request that kit from his kit. If that is against the rules where you play, then your administrators need to crack down on that rule.



It's not that hard to not kill a Collaborator on accident. Just make sure their not wearing a sheet and they have a white shirt on and you could use your binoculars too if your not sure.

Numerous ppl have said they have killed civis on accident

I severely doubt that punishments would happen after. I'm for sure that soldiers would be arrested on the spot for killing an unarmed person.

dont mean to be a jerk but have u witnessed this IRL? I have seen various charges about killing unarmed men in combat (most cases were thrown out (Haditha incident) and they were all charged after the incident took place. It was only until the debriefing that they figured out civilians were killed and even then the court ruled MOST of the men not guilty of murder... but some were...point is they were not taken off the battlefield right away. I would think that a person knowingly engaging unarmed persons not with the insurgency may be arrested on sight but if it was in the heat of battle the Soldiers/Marines would not stop everything and arrest there own right there... And like I have said in numerous threads before sometimes civilians can be engaged if permission is given by higher 1st Recon did this in Iraq, the Paras did it in Iraq and Afghanistan, even the French did this in Afghanistan, if I looked well I am sure I can find the US engaging unarmed spotters in Afghanistan also. Most of the time when a civi is killed it is an accident if you died when you killed a civi or get kicked it would not resemble RL at all.

Yes people will want to go as Collaborator, but that situation is where suggestion two and three kick in. An actual Collaborator is limited to one per squad so maximum of nine per team. An unarmed player takes sixty seconds before the player becomes a Collaborator, but is already limited at the start. The player only has fists to defend himself/herself, unarmed hands, and a cellphone. An unarmed Collaborator lacks binoculars, medical supplies, and a stone to defend himself/herself. With that being said, if everyone wanted to go Collaborator, then technically no one is defending the caches except with rocks and fists.

Again I have seen numerous squads in game with 2 sniper rifles and marksman rifles... Ppl will find a way around it... and if a squad is made and the insurgency wants to kill a tank... run into the building it is firing into and boom.... kicks the gunner now it is defenseless

My responses are in bold.

[USMCMIDN]

^^^ Leave it the way it is... again banning is to harsh and auto killing the guy who killed the civi is way to unrealistic. At times civis should b engaged especially if they are aiding the insurgency and there actions can get you killed. Defending yourself is well in the ROEs. Now in game if this happens and there is an insurgent bhind a civi u kill both u get the penalty (when you shouldnt) but this is suffice for now.

Again I do not mean to be cruel I respect what you are saying ppl do engage civis to often but my point is what if it is necessary or by accident? I do not think a auto kill is fair and what if you do it again? I do not think a kick is fair. I have accidentally killed civis b4 numerous times in 1 game. Now I know it would b restricted kit but it still can happen, if planned well enough by the insurgent team. As for shooting into a building with civis in it and u explaining u should check if there is civis in it often times u can not check, someone else said u cant send a guy in there knowingly hes gona get killed to check if there are civis.

Again I respect your thoughts dont think I dont but it is to harsh wat u are suggesting. Maybe the loss of a ticket thing is good... Often if your whole team is bitching at u for doing something wrong your gona stop. If your killing civis and losing tickets cause of it and ur team is complaining your gona stop... if u do it by accident it still loses u a ticket and warns u also the spawn time... that is fine.

[BenHamish]

If there was a change leading to ticket loss, Blufor would have some fairly short games for the first few [new] rounds lol.

What about linking it to the spawnable assets? I.e if a few civvys are killed, the total 'points' might add up to deprive Blufor of their tank, or CAS chopper (I mean, it wouldn't spawn in again).

[bromley]

I dont play as a collaborator simply because I like having a gun in my hand. And when i am collaborator 9/10 times they try to arrest me, not shoot me