Project Reality Forums

Operator009 wrote:You guys keep avoiding the question that all of you are blissfully deaf to.

How low is low enough to be destroyed by a bomb car? IRL I dont know, in PR, its 80M, and it seems excessive.

In PR it's not 80m, I tested this out and 80m causes minimal/no-damage to the kiowa. 60m is enough to cause it to bleed down but not enough to destroy it in one hit, they still have a chance to RTB. You would need to be <50m from the heli to one-hit kill it.

honestly without realistic fragmentation nothing will work properly.

arn't aircraft built for shock absorption?

Helicopters like the kiowa are not flying tanks, the damage should stay the same. It's your fault for flying that close.

It's been a while, but from what I can remember the safe drop altitude for Mk 82 and similar 500-pound bomb release on fixed-wing aircraft is 500 ft for retard, 2500 ft for dumb. This is around 300 to 450 KTAS depending on the aircraft.

I don't recall what level of explosives are being used in the smaller "bomb cars", but I remember the semi truck had a Mk 82 strapped onto it. I'm going to guess that the smaller vehicles have an equivalent of around 100 pounds. In any case, 100m in game would be my recommended safety range for any slow-flying aircraft, if the explosive ranges are set to near-realistic values.


And as Eddie mentioned, overpressure can actually cause more problems for rotor-wing aircraft than any shrapnel itself. While a helicopter can often sustain multiple fragment hits or small-arms fire, the pilots will have little chance of surviving loss of proper air flow.


In my opinion, PR players are still operating their aircraft much lower than I would recommend, even considering scaled-down units of measure within the game environment. But that's a matter for a different topic.

Well in PR you have to deal with the fact that we are limited in viewdistance.

As said before, dont fly close to a bomb vehicle and all is good. If you fly low and close enough to a hostile vehicle, then you deserve to be blown up.

Kill range =/= extent of the explosion's fireworks.

Worded alternatively, just because it's red, fiery, and hot doesn't mean you're safe because it didn't touch you.

What it boils down to is PR is about simulating TACTICAL REALISM, not specifically LIFELIKE REALISM. Chopper pilots, don't fly close if it explodes or fires back. Current implementation seems true to that philosophy, so I feel no change or adjustment is required.

yeah bomb cars already do cause damage to aircraft just . . its harder to reach them because they dont always fly low enough

seven character edit

Ok guys, fine, have it your way. When you try to land on the helipad in Kokan and get taken out on approach by a bomb car, blame yourselves for deciding a 100 pound bomb has a 50+meter kill zone. Enjoy.

Operator009 wrote:Ok guys, fine, have it your way. When you try to land on the helipad in Kokan and get taken out on approach by a bomb car, blame yourselves for deciding a 100 pound bomb has a 50+meter kill zone. Enjoy.

Play on a server thar doesn't allow baserape perhaps? Or come in from the river side?

Operator009 wrote:Ok guys, fine, have it your way. When you try to land on the helipad in Kokan and get taken out on approach by a bomb car, blame yourselves for deciding a 100 pound bomb has a 50+meter kill zone. Enjoy.

And you have a solution for that problem? If you remove the ability for an IED, bomb car, or other explosive device/explosion from damaging the aircraft, what's going to happen with parked aircraft? Explosions no longer damage them? What about pilots who drop their payload at 20m off the deck, either intentionally or unintentionally? They take no damage either from such an event?

Honestly, if your team allows the enemy to place such a device that close to an operational airfield that is in use, then the team deserves the outcome.

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote:And you have a solution for that problem? If you remove the ability for an IED, bomb car, or other explosive device/explosion from damaging the aircraft, what's going to happen with parked aircraft? Explosions no longer damage them? What about pilots who drop their payload at 20m off the deck, either intentionally or unintentionally? They take no damage either from such an event?

Honestly, if your team allows the enemy to place such a device that close to an operational airfield that is in use, then the team deserves the outcome.

Is there a specific damage modifier to aircraft damage? Does the damage have to be in a 3d sphere (can you make the damage only spread horizontally or at least reduce its upward explosion?)? Is there any way to isolate bombcar damage specifically?

Flying the the river doesn't work, and is often a worse choice. IED's near the land bridge and all the other bridges are a popular tactic.

No one can spot EVERY bit of insurgent movement, so 'allowing the nme team to put bombcars the close to main = team fail' isnt really a valid argument. If someone wants to bombcar a returning kiowa, they most certainly can. And as far as altitude goes, pilots usually go very low to land at Kokan main (for example) in order to land without clipping a truck or HMV. Or is someone suggesting the Kiowa MUST first hover over main at 100+m, and then do a perfect vertical decent (its actually not that hard,m but honestly, why would anypone HAVE to do that?)?

Fly higher, and get a good spotter and they can watch out for the bomb cars. Adapt your tactics and play on servers that don't allow bomb cars to drive into your main base. I see some people rack up a huge amount of kills with the scout choppers on Kokan. Maybe you should be looking at how your tactics differ with them instead of blaming a game mechanic which only you seem to have a problem with.

Flying the the river doesn't work, and is often a worse choice. IED's near the land bridge and all the other bridges are a popular tactic.

Not really, there's not many IED kits around, and the majority of things laid on bridges are land mines. Thinking about it, even back in 0.8 where the pipebombs were very powerful and quite widely used I don't recall seeing many choppers taken out by them.

AquaticPenguin wrote:Fly higher, and get a good spotter and they can watch out for the bomb cars. Adapt your tactics and play on servers that don't allow bomb cars to drive into your main base. I see some people rack up a huge amount of kills with the scout choppers on Kokan. Maybe you should be looking at how your tactics differ with them instead of blaming a game mechanic which only you seem to have a problem with.



Not really, there's not many IED kits around, and the majority of things laid on bridges are land mines. Thinking about it, even back in 0.8 where the pipebombs were very powerful and quite widely used I don't recall seeing many choppers taken out by them.

Not die'ing and racking up kills are two different things, both of which you can ahieve seperately or together. Pertaining to baserape, I never said baserape. I said NEAR main. On Kokan especially where themain is very small, pilots will decend to about 30-m to land from about 100m out. Its either that or we descend vertically from 100m up, and land on a 10x10m helipad...

IED kits...are you kidding me? Off the bat, sappers get TWO IEDs and ONE mine. If they use them all before they refuel (which any normal player does), they will always have two times more IEDs placed than mines. Furthermore, its true IEDs are really only a threat under 20m altitude (not the arty IED which will rape you regardless of your altitude), but when you are trying to avoid techy fire that will kill you if your high up and bomb cars that can frag you from 50m, its very frustrating than even the pipe bomb will wreck you at under 20m. Add to the fact that ANYONE can get a sapper kit...

The Kiowa is a chopper MADE for peering just above the damn trees, and I realize gameplay > realism, but PLEASE do not claim pilots who fly low should 'learn their lesson'. Thats quite an ignorant thing to utter.

You guys are trying to nerf the sapper into oblivion, it seriously isn't that good.

The regular pipebombs are ****, insurgents are just punching bags right now.

boilerrat wrote:You guys are trying to nerf the sapper into oblivion, it seriously isn't that good.

The regular pipebombs are ****, insurgents are just punching bags right now.

No one is saying to nerf pipe bombs...they only came up briefly...we are debating bomb car damage to helicopter here...

Operator009 wrote: The Kiowa is a chopper MADE for peering just above the damn trees, and I realize gameplay > realism, but PLEASE do not claim pilots who fly low should 'learn their lesson'. Thats quite an ignorant thing to utter.

Not trying to nitpick, but hovering below the treetops is very Fulda-Gap Scenario - Not sure what COIN tactics are but in a Kiowa IRL I would presume they hang around at altitude and allow a large stand-off distance to target.

PR/BF2 doesn't simulate flying well at all because of the limited size of the maps, and the small view distances.

As a spotter chopper, shouldn't the Kiowa spot the bombcar before landing?

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote: Honestly, if your team allows the enemy to place such a device that close to an operational airfield that is in use, then the team deserves the outcome.

Its silly to think that in PR that defending the main is valid. As an example, noone should be sitting on the MG's at the US main on Kokan to ensure surety of the vehicles within.

If anything, the mains should be far flung and out of reach, but smack in the middle of the map with tree cover and villages within earshot of its walls.