Alternate Insurgency mode idea.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

As people have mentioned, what is stopping the Insurgents or Taliban from simply staying off the cache and not bothering to go near it? Sure, the BLUFOR can search the whole map from top to bottom but its highly likely that they will either miss a cache, or take so many casualties along the way that the gain from destroying one wouldn't balance it out.

Why? Collaborators are exactly that, a tool meant to represent the civilian population of the area being sympathetic to the Insurgent cause. Giving them a weapon makes them free game and basically gives a reason to simply return the Doctor kit.

Why? You add many suggestions but no reasoning behind them. How much distance is needed to be a global factor taking into account ALL maps including smaller ones such as Fallujah?

Once again, you are just saying random **** without backing it up with any real logic.

That isn't even seen on Hardcore let alone many other servers. On the servers where teamwork counts, the Insurgent faction is often smart enough to stay well away from the BLUFOR in order force them to come closer. Either that or raiding parties which is a very effective tactic.

I haven't seen ammo techies being used as suicide vehicles period.

Take a little more time to make your suggestion something else. Suggestions which have no reasoning or are extremely vague are boring and uninteresting. No developer is going to bother to read it when you bring nothing new to the table. Essentially you're wasting your time.

Wrong, re-arming small arms is also possible at the mains.

Dtacs, No offense, but you COMPLETELY missed the point of my suggestion. My suggestion was in order to create an ( IMPORTANT WORDS COMING UP) alternate game mode.

To counter your points,
1. Most insurgency rounds, the guy with the RPG doesn't stray too far from the cache...BECAUSE HE HAS TO REARM. Staying off caches really isn't an option if in said ALTERNATE game mode, the ammo techies get wiped out, and don't respawn again for 10-15 minutes.

2. RE: collaborators with weapons.....ALTERNATE GAME MODE. With intel points removed, having unarmed players would be pointless

3. RE more hide outs....Alternate game mode, it gives the insurgents better mobility to counter Bluefors optics, and if caches weren't spawnable after the first 5 minutes, vital.

4.RE: increasing ammo techie respawn time. As I stated in my original post::Insurgents would be forced to protect ammo techies a bit more, potentially eliminating their use as suicide vehicles. I see you have never played Ramiel, Fallujah West, or Kokan, or if you have, you don't pay attention, as it happens quite often.

[dtacs]

An alternate game mode which really provides nothing except regular Insurgency with some random changes. I'd rather see a completely redeveloped counter-Insurgency with the Insurgents attacking and the BLUFOR defending. There are many other gamemode proposals that litter the suggestions area and none are unique or simple enough as the Insurgency and AAS systems.

2. RE: collaborators with weapons.....ALTERNATE GAME MODE. With intel points removed, having unarmed players would be pointless

It wouldn't, because in Insurgencies, namely Iraq, there is an overwhelming civilian population, still having the ability for civilians to move around with impunity means that this gamemode you're proposing doesn't just turn the Insurgents into another faction like Hamas or the Militia.

I see you have never played Ramiel, Fallujah West, or Kokan

Don't patronize me. On your server where someone can actively use it as a suicide vehicle sure, but on servers which go out of their way to ensure a realistic environment such as TG and PRTA, it isn't allowed.

[Teh0]

Instead of small caches insurgents could project larger ammo storages. Vehicles could only load from them.

[illidur]

An alternate game mode which really provides nothing except regular Insurgency with some random changes.

hence the alternate insurgency, not a new name. its ok to not like the suggestion, as do i. but constructive criticism is always better. aas modes have alternates with nothing but vehicle layout changes and dod additions.

Don't patronize me. On your server where someone can actively use it as a suicide vehicle sure, but on servers which go out of their way to ensure a realistic environment such as TG and PRTA, it isn't allowed.

doesn't mean it doesn't happen regardless. if it happens someplace, it happens.

[dtacs]

hence the alternate insurgency, not a new name. its ok to not like the suggestion, as do i. but constructive criticism is always better. aas modes have alternates with nothing but vehicle layout changes and dod additions.

But thats just it, this brings nothing interesting to the table and honestly isn't worth adding in when there are many more gamemode proposals which have more critical thinking and logic put into them.

If its happening on other servers then I highly suggest that they add the rule that ramming with vehicles, be it against infantry or tanks etc. is grounds for dicipline. TG does this and its excellent not to be rammed by a jeep at the docks after landing in a chopper.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

But thats just it, this brings nothing interesting to the table and honestly isn't worth adding in when there are many more gamemode proposals which have more critical thinking and logic put into them.

If its happening on other servers then I highly suggest that they add the rule that ramming with vehicles, be it against infantry or tanks etc. is grounds for dicipline. TG does this and its excellent not to be rammed by a jeep at the docks after landing in a chopper.

I see nothing but complaints and not one suggestion from you Dtacs.

Put your money where your mouth is and start making actual suggestions.

[dtacs]

Well be prepared to take criticism when you make a suggestion, I'm not going to make ones in your thread because developing a whole new game mode that is basically Insurgency with a few things twisted here and there is pointless.

Put your money where your mouth is and start making actual suggestions.

My last suggestion was implemented since it was logical, smart and [will] balance out the map. I don't make many suggestion threads because its honestly a waste of time when the developers have openly admitted they don't reply to many suggestions, and with good reason considering some are so half baked that they aren't even worth reading.

Why make a suggestion if it isn't going to be implemented? The last good one was something like 6 months ago when snoogums proposed limiting the Specialist kit.

My point is if you want this to be implemented, put a little more thought into it and provide the developers with a good reason to take time out of their schedules to bother making it. Provide a decent pitch. Your best bet would be to start editing code and integers and test out this game mode. You could no doubt find 63 people willing to test this game mode out and then you can show how it would be a valid reason to be in the mod.

[doop-de-doo]

Let me just clarify two things real quick.

Are the caches not marked for either team, or only removed for BLUFOR?

Would the intel points system be removed as nothing would be rewarded for them (caches never get marked)?

-//-

Why give weapons to the collaborators? If you kill a civilian, shouldn't you still be penalized, even if it's only through points? That's part of the war right there.

Considering that you seem to want people to only be able to re-arm from caches, does this mean that the Main Base depot would be removed?

If the repair depot is removed from the Main Base, that would definitely reduce suicide tactics involving vehicles, as they would not be able to be repaired.

[goguapsy]

Not sure if anyone mentioned, but having all caches spawned = wouldn't really work ie. too many "accidental kills" you know?

[mangeface]

+1 I really agree with the no intel points thing, that's how I always wished it was, adds to the realism of recon-ing

Do you know how NATO forces find most of the caches in Iraq and Afghanistan? From the locals telling them. Hence, intelligence.

Taking away the intel points system would ruin insurgency. The game mode is quite hard now, whether your BluFor or OpFor. I disagree with everything stated by the OP and 100% agree with dtacs. He sums up everything quite well.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

Do you know how NATO forces find most of the caches in Iraq and Afghanistan? From the locals telling them. Hence, intelligence.

Taking away the intel points system would ruin insurgency. The game mode is quite hard now, whether your BluFor or OpFor. I disagree with everything stated by the OP and 100% agree with dtacs. He sums up everything quite well.

Again, since quite a few missed an important word in my original post:

ALTERNATE

not replacement.

The idea is to intentionally tip the odds in favor of the Insurgents side. The lack of intel, and all caches spawned on start up is to force the Bluefor to utilize recon, patrols, o0bservation and deemphasize FOB construction as a way to force Insurgents to attack, handing info to Bluefor. Less time will be spent by FOB squads building and defending semi-pointless FOBs in an attempt to gain intel, and more time spent with Infantry squads clearing sections of a map, possibly building by building. Rounds would likely be shorter, and map size might need to be kept as 1km by 1 km to prevent a 100% chance of Insurgent victory.

Think of it as more of an Infantry and light vehicle only Insurgency mode. AAS has alternate modes, mostly differentiated by the vehicles on the map. This would simply alter the tempo of an Insurgency round.
And Dtacs, I asked for creative input right from the start. If all you want to do is piss in my cornflakes, Please keep it to yourself.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

I like the ideas!

5 - remove spawning on caches - mostly to force the insurgents to build hideouts and thus prevent bluefor from immediately spot the cache judging from the endless stream of insurgents spawning there.

I like that idea.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

Let me just clarify two things real quick.

Are the caches not marked for either team, or only removed for BLUFOR?

Would the intel points system be removed as nothing would be rewarded for them (caches never get marked)?

-//-

Why give weapons to the collaborators? If you kill a civilian, shouldn't you still be penalized, even if it's only through points? That's part of the war right there.

Considering that you seem to want people to only be able to re-arm from caches, does this mean that the Main Base depot would be removed?

If the repair depot is removed from the Main Base, that would definitely reduce suicide tactics involving vehicles, as they would not be able to be repaired.

The idea would be that only INS knows where their caches are. Caches would never get marked automatically. Bluefor squad leaders and commanders only would be able to place the cache mark for their team. Caches are not spawnable. Temporary spawns at the begining of the main disappear after a few minutes. The additional hideouts allows flexibility of the Insurgent defense.

The removal of main base is problematic...I don't see as it should be removed, as techies still need to re arm. Rearming ammo techies is vital. That would be the only source of ammo for any squad trying to draw Bluefor away. And to think that every player that picks up an rpg is going to run back to main to rearm to avoid returning to the cache he picked the kit up from is not likely.

My intention is to force or rather create a game mode that relies less on the very common Bluefor tactic of building an fob and waiting for the waves of insurgents and bomb vehicles to come at it, and more on Co-ordinated Infantry tactics.

[goguapsy]

Well, you're suggesting perhaps a ARMA2-style insurgency without any intel marker, huh?

Perhaps I'd suggest that you need MUCH more intel to get a cache (like, 100 each cache), so it rewards arresting insurgents rather than just killing 100 of them...

[illidur]

you know how much easier it would be to win as blufor if you did this? 4 or 5 caches all on the map at once would mean you would accidently find them easy. noobs will always have the "protect the unknown" strategy also.

remove the main spawn? no.

although i agree that i would like to see an alternate version of insurgency. but it could be minor changes like asset layout or something. this suggested mode would require huge changes.

[Col.Sanders34]

I like this idea, i think it would make INS a little more challenging for the BLUFOR.

A lot of people brought up how the INS could just stay away from the caches for an easy win. How about making it so hideouts can only be built within a predefined radius around a cache, lets say 200m. That way the if a patrol finds a large cluster of insurgents or a hideout in a certain area they'll know a cache is nearby without literally being shown the cache with a marker and have to intensify their patrols in areas of resistance.

[Bringerof_D]

you know how much easier it would be to win as blufor if you did this? 4 or 5 caches all on the map at once would mean you would accidently find them easy. noobs will always have the "protect the unknown" strategy also.

remove the main spawn? no.

although i agree that i would like to see an alternate version of insurgency. but it could be minor changes like asset layout or something. this suggested mode would require huge changes.

it works because this way insurgents will need to split up and defend the caches. sentries can keep eyes on blufor and report what area's they are headed for and have friendly's relocate as appropriate. in other words this makes insurgency mode much for fluid. right now it's just a big cluster *uck of insurgents defending the two known caches. with this implemented, INS would actually need to hide and ambush in small numbers and react to enemy movements rather than just massing at caches and fighting with a solid front.

and lets not forget, as caches become destroyed, the density of INS presence at each subsequent cache should naturally increase.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

Fair enough, 128 players would cut down on cashes being left undefended and taken out easily. Bluefor would need to work tighter to go without intel too, which is also a good thing.

However, another reason for cashes being changed in PR so that they don't all spawn at the start of the round is because of players who have team switched from the insurgent side. Any player that switches to bluefor instantly knows which buildings/rooms to attack.

H[=CubCadet1972;1537109']Caches would never get marked automatically.

The insurgents would still get map locations for caches tho, right?

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

Fair enough, 128 players would cut down on cashes being left undefended and taken out easily. Bluefor would need to work tighter to go without intel too, which is also a good thing.

However, another reason for cashes being changed in PR so that they don't all spawn at the start of the round is because of players who have team switched from the insurgent side. Any player that switches to bluefor instantly knows which buildings/rooms to attack.



The insurgents would still get map locations for caches tho, right?

Ok, what if caches spawn in 3 minutes, all starting spawns, except main, disappear.

Yes, INS can still see their own caches.

[General Dragosh]

1. Intelligance system change = Make only "captured" insurgents count towards intelligance points and remove the +1 IP for blufor killing a insurgent (if my mind serves me right ) or any other IP gain + maybe invent a new aditional unique system to gain IP but very slowly ( in a way that ins could stop the blufor from getting IP from this new unique "objective" )

2. Instead of a marker on a exact area where a chache is, maybe place a seethrough circle with a colored border in a wide general area where the chache could be, the more IP you collect the more the circle will shrink to point out a more accurate location placement

98. Ridiculous idea here as well, 128 player server -> 32 vs 96 seems very realistic to me, wonder how that would end xD

Now here are some points why the removal of IP would not be good

- A lot of players wouldnt like it, to walk arround aimlesly, where even a lot of players dont even know where chaches do spawn

- Most gamemods are adjusted to the community as well to a dergee, to make them more happy, because in the end they are the one who are playing it

- I rarely even see the CnC mode being played and thats very similar to the "removal of IP" , that shows that the general public of players (who dont attend to weekly or monthly organised fights with such mods) dont like CnC, i myself played it once and a lot of people got confused, in short it was pure chaos, the players expect to have a general objective to point them in the right direction