Insurgent Missdirection

[Pronck]

Yay! We have RPGs! But serious Rudd, due to the deviation we are not capable of killing a APC standing in the middle of the desert 500 mtrs away with an old rusty RPG. We will be dead before we are able to shoot. And most Devs are thinking that everyone is playing with mumble, well they don't. They should at least add a small zoom to the RPG to balance this issues. And suicide cars, really? The most of them will get stolen by a lone wolf driving directly at the enemy. And there are more garies spawning then bomb-cars. Pff, enough arguments why the insurgents are nerfed.

By the way this is not only about Al-Basrah.

[Rudd]

Yay! We have RPGs! But serious Rudd, due to the deviation we are not capable of killing a APC standing in the middle of the desert 500 mtrs away with an old rusty RPG

why are you attempting to kill a APC in the desert 500m away?

Seriously guys wake up,

if your being killed repeatedly by a vehicle 500m away in the desert do you know what that means?

YOU ARE BEING SUPPRESSED AND LOSING THE FIREFIGHT

what does that mean? does it mean that your equipment ingame should be increased because you cant get it in to your minds that your meant to not expose yourself to something that you all seem convinced will kill you, that perhaps retreat to the next block of buildings and sucking your enemy from the desert in to crowded streets where your shorter range weapons and ambush techniques will work?

[Psyko]

web good ideas. ghost recon, bomb cars could be easily controled with a garrage system where officer squad leaders can open a gate to the main base, that way you would have to be a squad leader or commander and assign a squad title.

[Pronck]

why are you attempting to kill a APC in the desert 500m away?

Seriously guys wake up,

if your being killed repeatedly by a vehicle 500m away in the desert do you know what that means?

YOU ARE BEING SUPPRESSED AND LOSING THE FIREFIGHT

what does that mean? does it mean that your equipment ingame should be increased because you cant get it in to your minds that your meant to not expose yourself to something that you all seem convinced will kill you, that perhaps retreat to the next block of buildings and sucking your enemy from the desert in to crowded streets where your shorter range weapons and ambush techniques will work?

Well you probably have never played on a server like =)H(= etc. because first they will start standing in the desert for 1 hour and then 1 guy would ninja the cache or they will call in the kiowas. Ambushes, well although I have made an tutorial about IED ambushes, the community is struggling to make an IED Ambush or an anti-infantry ambush. Probably because of the 1337 th3m4lzZ sights or the lack of ammo cars.

[Rudd]

Well you probably have never played on a server like =)H(= etc. because first they will start standing in the desert for 1 hour

stop providing targets for them at that location and maybe they'll move

[Pronck]

stop providing targets for them at that location and maybe they'll move

Uhm well, they won't. You can't fordbid 31 players to stand at the edge of the city.

[DankE_SPB]

due to the deviation we are not capable of killing a APC standing in the middle of the desert 500 mtrs away with an old rusty RPG

That is exactly a point, blufor needs an advantage at least somewhere. And just so you know, RPG ingame is more accurate than rl counterpart.

Insurgents have loads of stuff to blow the blufor up, small arms are on par with blufor in deviation and power, only downfall - no scopes, but in return have no tickets at all, so don't treat them as villy-nilly weaponless civis please, that is simply not true.

Insurgency mod has problems, but that is for sure not their "weakness" in weapons and firepower or "bad" RPG deviation.

And suicide cars, really? The most of them will get stolen by a lone wolf driving directly at the enemy

Same can be said about any vehicle, players problem, not much you can do about it.

web good ideas. ghost recon, bomb cars could be easily controled with a garrage system where officer squad leaders can open a gate to the main base, that way you would have to be a squad leader or commander and assign a squad title.

Yeah, easily

[Arc_Shielder]

Let's give SLs house too if we're adding garages.

Seriously, insurgency's lack of teamwork seems to fit the faction somewhat (even though is a bit annoying sometimes). Also, complaining about the weapons and tools at hand in an asymmetrical warfare sounds so dumb that I dont even know where to start.

I think the only issue here is the misguidance of ammo. People are not using it properly. Ammo cars are the most neglected vehicle in PR.

[Rissien]

Learn to use the rpg? We used to hit infantry on the mountains 600 meteres away with rpgs on Lashkar. Let the deviation settle and know how it arcs. Was several months ago so sorry no screenies but not rocket science to hit a target with a rpg.

[Psyko]

Yeah, easily

i thought rhino made a door opening thing for the bunkers on baracuda, i remember a video where it worked. at least i think i remember it.

yea its not the weapons. this isnt about ins rpgs, its about the ins team members roving around individually and being spilt apart too easily. i regret even mentioning the RPGs.

[Tim270]

The only 'problems' with insurgency at the moment imo is Basrah and Karbala. The maps are just far too open coupled with (lets be honest) a pretty overkill load out of Bluefor assets. Simply more statics in and around the desert might sort it out.

Everything else plays fine.

[Pronck]

The only 'problems' with insurgency at the moment imo is Basrah and Karbala. The maps are just far too open coupled with (lets be honest) a pretty overkill load out of Bluefor assets. Simply more statics in and around the desert might sort it out.

Everything else plays fine.

Karbala would be more balanced when the Insurgents get a SPG-Techie and some artillery IEDs. Or more bomb-cars because the current layout is embarrassing

[Psyko]

The only 'problems' with insurgency at the moment imo is Basrah and Karbala. The maps are just far too open coupled with (lets be honest) a pretty overkill load out of Bluefor assets. Simply more statics in and around the desert might sort it out.

Everything else plays fine.

BLUFOR are desperite not to enter the city, they are wise not to. because armour wouldnt last 2 minutes in the inner city streets.

but what if the armour was more powersul on APCs? exactly how many RPGs does it take to "destroy" an APC. i bet this argument has been had in the DEV forums. if you can take more damage, then infantry can protect you longer. IFVs should be salivating for the chancce to royally rape a steady flow of insurgents in the inner city but instead they have to camp.

Ask skull,jigsaw and gazthompson: we played a round of karbala and used two Strikers in tandum. we raced up side by side through the desert from the south side of the south eastern village, parked 100m south of the cash, the APCs deployed smoke, infantry ran up to the wall. two 50s covered with suppressing fire, cache was taken in a matter of seconds. it should work the exact same way in the inner city, but it doesnt because APCs and IFVs still dont last pissing time.

[Psyko]

I suppose its worth saying here because its the same subject. I'm not trying to piggyback my ideas on other developers but i was talking to one last night about this. and i was surprised when they said this had never been brought up before.
PR by its very nature has been constructed in segments. It has spent the last few years dodging the design method and ploughed through the normal rules. but this road is coming to an end with the eventual engine change. In normal conventional media, you call upon designers to gather reference material, then you get these same designers to work up concept art, story, content, and then finally a brief. now, i'm not saying we don't have those things, but I am saying they came in a messed up order. PR has no substantial core, its a shell built around nothing more than an idea, its a documentary, (which is an original genre for a video game) and you cant make a "game" without balancing the fun bits. if you don't, all you get is an apple skin with no core, if you bite into it too fast, you might lose a tooth. the only thing stopping players from leaving the game, is the hype created months before a release. so i'm suggesting a permanent strategy to balance the game-play. You need an artistic director, who is willing to confront the views of the other developers and tell them where things need to be changed. and more than that, the other developers need to recognise the nessesity for such a person. (i know its been tried before and it didnt work, but thats because it was the wrong person, no offence intended to that person) I know its not the same as a normal studio, in a normal studio you get paid. but lets face it, your all here modding for pleasure to make somthing thats a shitload bigger than you ever antisipated it would become. that means you need to enter the idea of utalising the ideas of someone who is diametrically opposed to you(for example: reality<->exaggeration), because eventually when you start traveling in one direction you are blinded to all other alternatives, just look at ARMA and operation flashpoint, great ideas, but there's no rhythm or rhyme to the gameplay. And i dont think the current system it working as well as it could be. Im not nieve, i know that each DEV is adding his slice of the pie and entering information at his own discression, (and heres the part where im really sticking my neck out, becuase i dont know how some of you are going to react) ,your not game developers, your individual artists with a lack of leadership, and thats an anarchic system. PR is a freight train on drugs,I think an artistic director, utilised well would take the game to the next level. because you'd all have your say with the realism, and you'd be able to keep the quality at a high level. but if you got the wrong person in for the job, that person could end up draining you of your motivation, and thats the only con i can see. It could well solve a lot more problems than the insurgency game mode.
just remember, this isn't a rant, i'm just airing my opinion, please don't take any of this as an insult.

[Tim270]

BLUFOR are desperite not to enter the city, they are wise not to. because armour wouldnt last 2 minutes in the inner city streets.

My point being this ^. On maps where you force armour into urban areas (Fallujah) Bluefor loose a lot more assets and generally get a lot closer rounds. It also means there has to be a hell of a lot more comms between armour and infantry to keep the apcs alive from bombcars etc. You actually need infantry in-front of you.

Basrah for example you can sit the tank and a apc out in the desert and rape all the destructible buildings until they are all down then just walk in when the insurgents have no cover. Same goes for the outskirts of the main city, it is too easy for Bluefor to simply line all their armour up and continuously pound away at the insurgents until they fall back inside - making it a pretty much free walk for Bluefor inf to get right up next to the caches. It just pretty much comes down to the insurgents having a very small 'buffer' zone between them and the cache, making it extremely obvious where it is at the same time.

Karbala works in the same way that it is far too easy for bluefor to simply roll around in a large blob, set up in the open where nothing can come at you without seeing it and then support the infantry. That combo is pretty much impossible to defeat. Only getting lucky and having nearlly all you're caches right in the heart of the city plays a lot more balanced. However the caches in the areas with all the destructible buildings and right on the edges of the city are just too easy to get.

Apart from those two maps though I think it plays absolutely fine. The insurgent faction imo is meant to play in chaos.

[Rudd]

Tim, your observation regarding urban environments being better for infantry is true.

If someone wants to do a concerted effort to improve one of the insurgency maps, please do
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... rs-up.html

its all there, but it takes time, motivation and effort; and most of the active DEV mappers have hteir own projects to finish

[Bob of Mage]

Here's my two cent to help fund your effort:

1- Add a very limited kit requst system to the Insurgent faction. Only a handful AR 'n' nade kits, civilian kits, maybe very limited LMGs, and a true combat medic (instead of having to loot one). Oh and an IED kit should be requestable since you can spawn with them. This would hopeful make the faction feel more like a regular faction, instead of some random dudes with guns, tons of C4 and a dead wish. Also with less fancy pick up kits it would be harder to lone wolf. The system would have the added boost, that because of the high kit turnover rate, the lone wolves would need to be in a squad more often.

2- Add some more deployable assets. There's little to stop a group of human from making roadblocks out of random stuff (besides BLUFORCE gunfire). Give insurgent type factions homemade versions of wire or foxholes. Really how hard is it for them to dig a hole or pile up random junk. Also if a HMG nest is too heavy, why not make a LMG nest? I'm sure an experienced insurgent could figure out how to set one up. Deployable assets require people to work together and are fun to use. Plus who doesn't want to defend their homeland from defences they made from hand?

3- Look for other things that make the other factions more teamwork friendly and try to add an insurgent version of them.

[Pronck]

Rudd;1562492']Tim, your observation regarding urban environments being better for infantry is true.

If someone wants to do a concerted effort to improve one of the insurgency maps, please do
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... rs-up.html

its all there, but it takes time, motivation and effort; and most of the active DEV mappers have hteir own projects to finish

Well you see a lot of maps in the community section, but if no body puts them in their map list or it won't be included in a patch why should we bother to make a map that won't be played at all?

[killonsight95]

the problem with insurgents is that the SL's can't control the people in the SQ's because they have nothing to threaten them with if they act around as they don't need the SQ to get the kits they want therfore i think bring kit Request to the ins gameplay so SL's can actually threaten to kick people from the SQ so they can't get kits etc.