Project Reality Forums

Insurgents = Militia = Rebels
There is no difference in what they are, you could also say that Militia are Russian rebels (or druglords, weapon dealers or whatever)

You will NEVER see a Rebel/Insurgent/some russian rebel with a scoped SKS because its retarded to do so. A SKS is a second line weapon you give to medics, arty crews or some other people who dont fight directly on the front. Only because it is possible to attach a scope to a SKS doesnt mean you should (you can also put scopes on pistols, hell I saw a syrian rebel with a M 16 wit a sniper scope)

IRL 90% of the weapons Insurgents/Milita/Rebels use have no scopes, simulated in PR with only a few marksman kits that do have optics.

And the only drawback from having no scopes is having a max effective range of 100-200m (if youre a bit used to Iron Sights you can hit targets up to 200m)
And Militia has only Woodland maps, where most of the time you will fight under 100m.

Seriously, why do you want to take this unique feature of the insurgents/hamas/militia/whatever that they have no scopes? If you want a scope so much then just kill an enemy and take his kit (and get teamkilled after 5 minutes) or just take a sniper/marksman. Some factions need to be unique, if not then every army would have thermals, scopes, guided HATs, same jets, same tanks, no ATGMs in tanks, no WF rounds in challengers, same amount of ammo in every weapon and vehicle, no asymethrical balance, etc, etc. You're not fighting on Kashan Desert, if you want to kill the enemy wait for him to come closer. Militia has incredibly OP CQB weapons such as the Lee Enfield or the AKS-74U, they have grenade traps, 50.cal techies, RKGs, derpilion of AT field guns, and the list goes on. Not every faction has to have l33t pr0 laz0r gu1d3d b0mbz, or as in this topic, scoped weapons

Insurgents = Militia = Rebels

I'd stop arguing semantics lads, it's just a circle of 'yes it is' 'no it isn't'

perhaps there are other ways of balancing militia teams against conventional teams

for example, perhaps it's possible to gain tickets from every 20kills the team mates, the team gains 5 tickets or something, every tank is 5 tickets gained etc; sounds possible to me.

Blufor might have that flexibility, that long range capability and the armour...but if they lose stuff...the enemy gets stronger perhaps.

Gaining tickets is not the best idea imho, it would be better to just limit the number of respawning tanks/APCs so they do respawn but only 3 times or so. I think that this is possible, iirc the huey on Falklands respawns only twice. This could be added to insurgency too.

Can we close this one? This is not going anywhere. Can't play with Militia faction - suck it up and find the way not being addicted to scopes...

So, it's not the 2 tanks, 2 APCs and srim you guys are against for balance, it's scopes..... I would have thought that would have been peoples complaint against balance, not scopes....

MADsqirrel wrote:Insurgents = Militia = Rebels
There is no difference in what they are, you could also say that Militia are Russian rebels (or druglords, weapon dealers or whatever)

You will NEVER see a Rebel/Insurgent/some russian rebel with a scoped SKS because its retarded to do so. A SKS is a second line weapon you give to medics, arty crews or some other people who dont fight directly on the front. Only because it is possible to attach a scope to a SKS doesnt mean you should (you can also put scopes on pistols, hell I saw a syrian rebel with a M 16 wit a sniper scope)

IRL 90% of the weapons Insurgents/Milita/Rebels use have no scopes, simulated in PR with only a few marksman kits that do have optics.

And the only drawback from having no scopes is having a max effective range of 100-200m (if youre a bit used to Iron Sights you can hit targets up to 200m)
And Militia has only Woodland maps, where most of the time you will fight under 100m.

Explain Militia UAV and actual FOBs + watered-down deployables. Because Insurgents and Taliban do not have it as far as I recall.

SKS is actually accurate as opposed to AK-47. Putting scope on pistol has been done before. Putting scope on a revolver has also actually been done.

No one said it has to be given only to medic. Tank crew? LOL are you serious? AKs-74u just became worthless if you issue SKS to tank crew...

Again, there is no IRL Militia.


100m engagement range is all theory, there are also cover to consider; if you only see someone's head or foot(likely, people take cover since this is not call of dooty), it is not immediately recognizeable from the tiny bush or rock next to it.

Stemplus wrote:Seriously, why do you want to take this unique feature of the insurgents/hamas/militia/whatever that they have no scopes? If you want a scope so much then just kill an enemy and take his kit (and get teamkilled after 5 minutes) or just take a sniper/marksman. Some factions need to be unique, if not then every army would have thermals, scopes, guided HATs, same jets, same tanks, no ATGMs in tanks, no WF rounds in challengers, same amount of ammo in every weapon and vehicle, no asymethrical balance, etc, etc. You're not fighting on Kashan Desert, if you want to kill the enemy wait for him to come closer. Militia has incredibly OP CQB weapons such as the Lee Enfield or the AKS-74U, they have grenade traps, 50.cal techies, RKGs, derpilion of AT field guns, and the list goes on. Not every faction has to have l33t pr0 laz0r gu1d3d b0mbz, or as in this topic, scoped weapons

That is not unique feature fpr militia. It is unique, and largely unjustified, lack of feature.

Lee Enfield is OP in CQB. LOL what game have you been playing?

Militia is more well-funded that regular insurgents so they should be represented as such; do not just ignore all those complaints that hamas/taliban AAS maps suck.

Militia is plenty unique with variety of infantry weapons(STILL geared towards cqb because scoped SKS is situational as it sucks in cqb, but good for defending static position with good view on surroundings and can be swapped back to AK from crates), and that is asymmetrically balanced by simply inferior assets AND low amount of scope(I recommend one rifleman kit to have scope, nothing about AR, MG, SL, specialist...etc.)

AT field guns are not magical deployable HAT; they are moved by arrow keys and are very slow/fragile.

Maybe you should look at Militia more carefully; they are not just watered-down conventional forces with no spawnable scoped kit. One kit is not going to cause massive butthurt on BluFor.

Again, there is no IRL Militia.

the militia faction is there to represent the various irregular and paramilitary forces found throughout the world

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:the militia faction is there to represent the various irregular and paramilitary forces found throughout the world

And that is why it does not have to stick strictly to insurgents/taliban/hamas loadout.


Also good for backup ironsights since you can still see under the scope.

Now how about adding some STG44 for Militia?

What do Syrians have to do with Militia faction?

lgm wrote:What do Syrians have to do with Militia faction?

This...

'[R-DEV wrote:Rudd;1851164']the militia faction is there to represent the various irregular and paramilitary forces found throughout the world

militia is their to simulate North Eastern(as in Russian) paramilitary forces .
Insurgents are their to simulate Middle-eastern paramilitary forces.

I don't get why it's soo hard

GP_MineralWouter wrote:militia is their to simulate North Eastern(as in Russian) paramilitary forces .
Insurgents are their to simulate Middle-eastern paramilitary forces.

I don't get why it's soo hard

According to you, Taliban is Insurgents(while in PR they are different).

You are the only one saying Militia is their(instead of "there") to simulate Eastern Europe paramilitary forces. How does that pit them against UK?

guys stop arguing semantics, you have drifted from the thread topic

if you wish to continue the discussion on what exactly the militia etc are, then please do so in another thread unless you can tie that discussion to balancing the militia faction in the context of their lack of scopes

Anyway, I post this again:

Picture^ and it did happen.

So, Scoped SKS only for rifleman kit only slightly improves Militia's long range capability(not like everyone can shoot at long range with precision anyway, and bullet drop/accuracy/damage can be tweaked to stop it from being overpowered) due to its MANY down sides(semi only bad for cqb, 10 round per mag bad for cqb, cannot reload midway bad for many things) as an option when defending a fob/objective from hilltop BluFor "snipers" who can use scope to accurately fire at anyone spawning in.

It does not really upset the balance as BluFor still keep the most important advantage at long range: scoped AR...etc. and scoped rifles with BUIS will be much easier to use in CQB in v1.0.

I see no reason why Militia cannot have a scoped SKS. It is not overpowered lazor rifle that SVD is, and its characteristics prevents it from becoming overused since it basically sucks in cqb like normal SKS(which is pretty awkward since it has no scope for longer range firing and sucks in cqb...).

It is a viable replacement for AK-74 because AK-47 is better in cqb and AK-74 is only marginally better at long range, which makes AK-74 underused and mostly worthless(not to mention texture is wrong since it has the folding stock button for AK-74M).

Overall Scoped SKS can also allow for more dynamic gameplay; Militia is not forced have entire squads to run around BluFor when spotted at long range, and BluFor has option to charge into CQB when fired upon by scoped SKS since scoped SKS is at massive disadvantage in cqb. While core mechanics of asymmetrical balance is unchanged, Militia still run from BluFor's FLIR-capable vehicles and have to setup ambush; it also punishes BluFor for wasting armoured asset(instead of just a few tickets) because Militia is not at severe disadvantage when both sides lose all armoured assets.

thank you comrade, you've made your point and from a gameplay perspective you make a good argument.

Repeating oneself however doesn't help, the team reviews these forums and we'll discuss what the community discussions propose.

Penetrable walls would nullify the Militia's need for scopes somewhat. We played Dragon Fly last night and I found that once you're out of 'pixel distance' a scoped squad can fire from a building at a non-scoped (militia) squad with basic immunity.

The militia squad in their own building (we were both in blocks of flats) were firing back at us a lot, but because we were behind a 100mm brick wall and only showing a small amount of target, we were basically immune.

I'm sure that it helps to be accurate 'IRL' but I'm also sure that if you're firing a PKM into the floor of a block of flats the guys firing back wouldn't happily wait whilst under fire because they know the chances of you hitting (with no scope) are slim compared with their likely hits.

I know that it's not possible to have those statics penetrable, but it does detract a lot (only in my opinion) to the ineffectual nature of the support weapons at range if they have no scope.

Obviously I understand that if the walls were penetrable the scoped squad would just sit further away still, however that would surely be more 'realistic'? And the PR view distance etc would prevent this somewhat (their fire would be so ineffectual anyway that it could only be used to supress).

Hmmm, what if you added a "back upsight" to ironsights with a 1.5x or 2x as a "focus".

gx wrote:Hmmm, what if you added a "back upsight" to ironsights with a 1.5x or 2x as a "focus".

You mean in the same way as the russian PKM has it atm?

Really good idea. You could implement this like a backup sights and it wouldn't be that unrealistic.. but there shouldn't be a blurry effect around the sight.
Other games do it the same way, f.e. Red Orchestra 2.

gx wrote:Hmmm, what if you added a "back upsight" to ironsights with a 1.5x or 2x as a "focus".

Good idea.Even Full HD monitor can't show you realisic picture.Sighting on 2-3 pixels isn't cool.ArmA2 had this thing btw.