Project Reality Forums

It doesn't matter how many people are for/against the new rallies, or any feature for that matter, but rather what they have to say about it. I've yet to see anyone explain how this rally system enhances gameplay, other than making sure you're no further than 100m from an enemy at any given time. This system is most probably liked by players who are just impatient. Rounds last an hour tops now because people are giving up left and right even when there might be a medic just around the corner. I think I've expended plenty of my digital energy typing out my thoughts on these RPs, and while I like the fact that the devs are trying different approaches and balancing with them, I think the 0.98 version had it right. Constant spawn points should be reliant on logistics to simulate supply and reinforcement routes. These rallies, don't - Where's the explanation for 8 men suddenly reappearing WAY behind enemy lines when nothing was even built there? Unless you guys pull out something real creative with these RPs, I'm not moved, revert it to .98

Spook wrote: At first I thought you would never keep the RPs with such a shitstorm hailing down on you, but now I get the feeling that you really try everything to stick to this idea. Even though you say its WIP and in test phase, still I think you really want to make the game faster and more action-based than before. And this scares the shit out of me.

This. The more fast paced you make PR, the less reason I have to choose it over BF3.

I vote no to the new system.

A long while back, I forget which update, the RP's were nerfed, forcing teams to use logistics and build FOBs. I thought it was a bad idea at the time, but it turned out to focus everyone on teamwork, and on finding enemy fobs either before or at the same time as taking flags, leading to better gameplay.

I hate CoD style games and love PR. This new RP system moves us to CoD-style far too much for me. I didn't really enjoy my experience with 1.0, and this was one of the main reasons.

I don't like the lack of tags but I think I will get used to that in time. This I don't think I will ever get used to because it spoils the gameplay. PR isn't about amazing graphics (any more), or about quick reactions, it's about deep gameplay, to attract the thinking player not the 15 year old on speed.

If you want longer-lasting RP's, make them visible (a type of FOB that can be built with no crate maybe) and easily destroyed/overrun, and reload them after a significant time, longer than in 0.98.

Or, go back to the 0.98 system.

Question to DEVs: Was anyone actually moaning about the old RP system? Just wondered why make the change?

Spook wrote:
At first I thought you would never keep the RPs with such a shitstorm hailing down on you, but now I get the feeling that you really try everything to stick to this idea. Even though you say its WIP and in test phase, still I think you really want to make the game faster and more action-based than before. And this scares the shit out of me.

Utterly agreed, especially:

"I think you really want to make the game faster and more action-based than before."

The pace is perfect just as it is. slow build up, then intense action.

@Spook

I think you are about right in what you've said. Maybe a bit harsh here and there. We have to be cautious in how we express our opinion, to not piss off the DEV's. When they are pissed, they will push the new RP system through, no matter what we say

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Rally Points

I've seen, that you have made changes in the newest build of the beta. Those changes make the new RP system better than before, of course, but I think the main problem that players like me (Teamwork orientated and slowly moving forward) have, are more fundamental.
For me, everythink that makes the game too easy to handle (like simply pressing a button for a new mini fob), strikes me. It's because, it tears me out of the virtual reality of PR and lets me think:
"meh, much to easy"
I want to have the necessity of helicopters/supply trucks, that bring in support for building something bigger. It more feels like a "real battlefield". It makes it's more complicated, slower and let's you (in best case) think more off your next actions = more reality !
So I think the whole "RP -> Yes/No" thing is more fundamental for many players, than a few changes here and there!

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Forum discussion

Of course, here in this forum people mainly post, who have something to say, that strikes them.
On the other hand, those are mainly people, who play in a clan.
I think it's important to hear them and take them and their problems seriously.
They are important for PR in general, for newbies in PR to have a good guided hand and will stay and have stayed in PR for a much longer time than other casual players.
You DEV's have to keep in my mind, that you have more casual player at the moment than a week ago.
Of course they will say YES to something thats new, because new things are more exciting than the old things. It's only natural....

I spoke to a few people in PR and I realized, that couple of them had not even realized that something has changed in the new RP system...

Maybe, if it's technically possible, we could test servers which have the new RP system and other servers that have no RP, or the RP system of 0.98. That would be great to see


Or you DEVS have a much bigger plan, that we don't see. Like to attract more people to PR, let them get excited, and then after a while you reduce the action factor and everything is good again!

I really hope that's the main reason

New rallys stealing job from transport

In 0.9x there was plenty of fob's over the map which is being constructed with help of logis\helis, and rallypoint's weren't used as much as in 1.0 beta.

But for now on, i constantly see situation when we have only 1 fob in center of map and a lot of rallys around.
Noone requesting transport... and then bam - all rallys overrunned, fob destroyed, everyone blaming transport squads which killed\crashed due overload.

That not normal, remove rallys pl0x, or at least revert them like in 0.9x.

Coconut wrote:@Spook

I think you are about right in what you've said. Maybe a bit harsh here and there. We have to be cautious in how we express our opinion, to not piss off the DEV's. When they are pissed, they will push the new RP system through, no matter what we say

The last thing I am trying to do here, is to be offensive against the DEVs. Just to make this clear. What I said are mostly non-arguable facts and speculations which very likely will become true.

I admire and apperciate the DEVs work. I had countless hours of fun because they spent their freetime on creating this mod. And they keep doing very good work. It just seems like they try to distance themselves from their principles, for whatever reason...thats what bugs me and that is what i cannot understand. All I want is to stick to the roots.

Bond makes a valid point (several actually) but "spam-able" rally's could be useful if available in certain conditions:

Large map with low population...long travel time to the fight

Internet drops several players unexpectedly...e.g. rally's keep strat's going until they reconnect

Attracting/competing new players from BF3/COD, etc. Meaning, PR has one helluva learning curve requiring a lot of patience for the PR-curious so if/when the above conditions exist maybe some "spawn-crack" keeps a noob around long enough for the vet's to explain the beauty of our beloved PR?


And, some "Reality" of a different stripe...I play mostly during prime time (8pm-12am) and there's 2 servers cooking: HOG and CIA. And, they're full with a waiting list. More people = more servers = growth. Face it, PR needs it.

If deployed strategically the "spam-bags" might siphon some new blood from the console world.

PR is no competetor of CoD. Its a different gametype. If someone says "uh that new PR is shit, i gonna play Cod instead" something is very very wrong.

I've read a big part of this thread and some people make very good points.

I have played a round today with the latest changes to the RPs. Although it did feel like the value of life went a bit up with them having to be further away and being overrun easily, I have to agree that fundamentally it still does not promote teamwork.

We have these new awesome helicopters like the Osprey, and no squads are using them, cause they got RPs. Less emphasis are put on FOBs and supplies. My 2 cents are that the RPs are OK now after 1.0.22, but they have to expire after a few minutes.

More feedback incoming: I feel like the .98 RP system had it pretty well. This new RP system, like others have said, allows reinforcements to hit the frontline in no time, which to me is not good for a few reasons.

1) It pretty much cancels out trans, which is hardly used to begin with and I feel like trans and logistics in general need a much larger roll, they become less and less relevant as the game goes on with obviously good fobs being placed and the new rally points.

2) Not realistic, it shatters the immersion brought by flying in or heading back from a FOB, like real reinforcements.

As many other people have stated, they need to expire.

Played a full round with the new build and its still the same -.-. Squadleading makes no fun anymore, on Fools Road is was the pure hell and Chaos. My squad couldnt get any good defense position because the enemy swarmed on our position from everywhere and endless. Moving on to get the rallys is nearly impossible because you get attacked from every direction with no brake to revive, reammo and even to reload. Even if you dont like to do it, you are forced to give up and run to the CP on and on to hold it, the enemy does it aswell. The complete Fob system which I think is the best on every tactical war game got ruined. I loved building, defending(yes there are guys who even defend/ed Fobs on 0.98 ) and also destroying important reinforcement Fobs of the enemy.
If you switch the playermodels of the Militia or Brits on fools road with zombies you would have the perfect survival game. But with PR that has nothing to do anymore...

Edit: Pls give us a test server with the 0.98 rally system. So we can try out.

Leut.dweed wrote:Played a full round with the new build and its still the same -.-. Squadleading makes no fun anymore, on Fools Road is was the pure hell and Chaos. My squad couldnt get any good defense position because the enemy swarmed on our position from everywhere and endless. Moving on to get the rallys is nearly impossible because you get attacked from every direction with no brake to revive, reammo and even to reload. Even if you dont like to do it, you are forced to give up and run to the CP on and on to hold it, the enemy does it aswell. The complete Fob system which I think is the best on every tactical war game got ruined. I loved building, defending(yes there are guys who even defend/ed Fobs on 0.98 ) and also destroying important reinforcement Fobs of the enemy.
If you switch the playermodels of the Militia or Brits on fools road with zombies you would have the perfect survival game. But with PR that has nothing to do anymore...

Edit: Pls give us a test server with the 0.98 rally system. So we can try out.

I played the same round, the new changelog didn't affect the gameplay at all.

Spook wrote:The only solution for me personally is going back to 0.98 RP system or even go further and remove them completely. Everything more powerful than in 0.98 is not providing anything good to the gameplay IMO.

I sign. RPs should be 0.98, not as a respawn tool but for the people that come in late or some unwanted casualties.
Its ironic how DEVs said; RPs are there to represent a bigger force, and when an actual bigger force is present with 100p, you completely throw that down the drain and beef up RP system to the moon and beyond.

Spook wrote:At first I thought you would never keep the RPs with such a shitstorm hailing down on you, but now I get the feeling that you really try everything to stick to this idea. Even though you say its WIP and in test phase, still I think you really want to make the game faster and more action-based than before. And this scares the shit out of me.

It feels like when a relationship is failing slowly. You know if you suddenly start buying all the gifts and everything, its not gonna help... The other party has decided its not it... Just watch it sink and hope for the best.

Even the forums arent what they were. All i see is arguing, and subjectivity beyond any god damn sense. And mainly the people pushing their points are those who have not got the brainpower to really think it over. And they are sadly a majority.

Now I dont have any problems with the DEVs, for the years of fun they have provided me and others, they deserve a private jet each, then again, it feels like an 90's rockstar band, like GnR trying to push their fame with seemingly half assed songs, which actually arent half assed, but they just arent it... its not 90's anymore. Instead of this 1.0 being like Apetite for Destructions, its more like Chinese Democracy.

I know that at this new release there is idiots playing, probably those who are voting all over the forums for the "wrong things", but fuck me, i witnessed a guy in an infantry squad, taking a chopper bringing it over, dropping a crate, getting blown up for flying infront of a BMP without even telling us beforehand. I ofcourse expressed my oppinion on the matter that this wasnt really a good thing to do and has cost us 12 tickets. His response was; So what?. That says enough.

I realise this is an open beta. Yes, im not one of those people who go in and start complaining about how everything is ruined. However its 1.0 beta and as far as i can tell, and im probably right, this is pretty much how 1.0 will play and look. (Ofcourse changes are possible but read the paragraphs above.)
What saddens me most is that if this is how 1.0 will be, it sadly didnt blow my mind like every DEV and his mother announced. It made me wonder how can something we have longed for seemed so beautiful but turned into some kind of a mini forum-war and shattered dreams.

I have kept quiet, but since Spook talked openly, so should I. There is still people who want PR on BF2 engine... not BF2 on BF2 engine.

After another round playing with the 1.0.24 version I still feel RPs should have a bigger overun radius and 2km and 4km should have the same (at last 200m) overun radius.
But it felt a lot less spammy the round I played.

Offtopic:
Please calm down everyone.

Originally Posted by Spook View Post
At first I thought you would never keep the RPs with such a shitstorm hailing down on you, but now I get the feeling that you really try everything to stick to this idea. Even though you say its WIP and in test phase, still I think you really want to make the game faster and more action-based than before. And this scares the shit out of me.

We are playing the Beta now for only 5 days. Its way to early to drop the new RP system completly. There are still many options to adjust RPs and DEVs are doing it, for example with the 1.0.23 patch.

@ Heavy Death
This is a Feedback thread for RPs, not the "I miss the old PR" thread. If you want to express your feelings you should make such a thread.
You just make it harder for the DEVs to find real feedback.

It completly ruins whats PR, tactical gameplay and teamwork.

I cant figure out we the devs even wanted too bring it back to test.

frankwilliam wrote:It completly ruins whats PR, tactical gameplay and teamwork.

I cant figure out we the devs even wanted too bring it back to test.

I think so too

frankwilliam wrote:It completly ruins whats PR, tactical gameplay and teamwork.

I cant figure out we the devs even wanted too bring it back to test.

The funny thing about it is that it destroy?s their own work. The rework of supply system f.e. .

I dont like the new rally point system the game ends up in a zerg rush...and that has nothing to do with PR anymore in my Opinion.

Pls stick to the old RP system.

That are low content posts now.
Give some examples of it being a "Zerg rush" (shouldnt be so hard just make a Screenshot of it) otherwise its hard to take you serious.

Keep in mind we're still working on the rallypoints. It was never our intention to just set them to infinite and leave them untouched. It's an open beta, so this is the perfect opportunity to try something.

We totally see the feedback and troubles.
Even in the team there are different opinions about that change and we already have multiple solutions and new ideas we gonna try out. More later.