Project Reality Forums

Deadmanfoot wrote:whAT dID yOU sAy?!??? bESt cAs pIeeeloooot??

big fan

Deadmanfoot wrote:I just feel like CAS needs atleast a 50%50 chance of surviving if risk taking means death 90% of the time then just remove countermeasures on a whole and leave CAS irrelevant.

Thing is, even with a 50% chance to die you'd still feel cheated, you'd still go for just about every laze on the ground and you'd still come to the forums and complain that pressing X doesn't make you invulnerable. In other words, there's no pleasing you.

YOU still play the game like it's 1.2, YOU and others falt-out refuse to adapt, and the game now punishes you for doing your silly little stunts, it's really that simple. I wager that the majority of your deaths would be avoidable with suifficient ground work(can't always have that one, I know), but you're so used to getting away with firing on AA-protected targets you consider the mere suggestion of playing conservatively as an affront.

Hunter291 wrote:Wow like aa cant lock over 1000 meters. o wait It can. Stop making bullshit lies. Yes we try to avoid aa, or bomb aa but what are we spose to do when there is no mark of aa or any intel and theres a laze on a tank about to kill a full squad? not go for it? You can see in many videos of aa that it is broken. Now in dogfights its whoever sees who first because the only thing you need to do is wait till lock and right click. Also didn't know that trans helicopters go for lazes must be from the best trans pilot.

You sound like someone who loses dogfights and loses jet after the first bombrun.
Thats mostly a getgood issue.
I suggest you practise on training server or coop before you use CAS on public server

transpilot123 wrote:You sound like someone who loses dogfights and loses jet after the first bombrun.
Thats mostly a getgood issue.
I suggest you practise on training server or coop before you use CAS on public server

Yes dedmenfetish you fucking nob
fucking start parctice

here is good video to start:



(Funny how I have to post this video for the 4th time now)

DogACTUAL wrote:Yet they think they need to lecture CAS players. Maybe they ought to actually try CAS and make sure to record it and show us how it went.

I cant try CAS, it gets hogged by groups of caswhores with multiple CAS squads, as is the norm. So all i can say is git gud.

While this is partially true, if you really want to fly there are quite some rounds nowadays where CAS squads can't get enough pilots or don't even get created in the beginning of the round (guess why). By now you should have encountered enough opportunities to fly CAS, you just have to pay attention and wait for an opening.

Once i was new to CAS too and with some effort i got opportunities to fly PvP CAS. And back then CAS was much more competitive and popular.

If you want you can add me on steam or discord, i will make sure you get to fly. Or just ask me to open my squad the next time you see me ingame leading a CAS squad, i will give you an aircraft on the spot, my own one if i have to.

So INF should report that APCs/Tanks are doing too much damage when they cross open fields and get killed so assets get nerfed to the level of direct HE hit?

As the best CAS and trans pilot at the moment I dont go for lazes near marked AAs, its that simple.

It is not about the damage an AA missile does, it is about how countermeasures are totally ineffective against them, to the point where it actually does make more sense to fly towards an incoming missile then away from it (not a joke). Seen here in more detail:




Infantry has terrain, foliage and building it can use as cover, while jets only have flares once they are in range of AA. Meanwhile infantry can be in range of an armoured asset but remain safe by using cover. Now imagine a tank that can see and shoot through solid cover, that is what AA is to CAS now.

The rough CAS equivalent of infantry crossing an open area with an enemy armoured asset overwatching, would be circling around very low over an area that has AA. The CAS equivalent of infantry in range of a tank using cover would be flying very high and away from the AA while using flares.

But as of now altitude, preflaring and heading of your jet doens't really matter much or not at all against most AA, in my video you can actually see that once a missile is headed your way your best course of action is actually to fly towards it and exploit a glitch to defeat it, basically the opposite of would should be the case gameplay wise.

And btw who are you? I thought i was the best CAS pilot! 1v1 me on test airfield REEEEEEE!

Seriously now though, if you were the best you would know that you can actually safely go for lases near AA if you have LGBs and drop them quickly right when the lase becomes visible (before the lock on audio cue).
You just need to know the location of the lase and fly in very high at a near horizontal angle, then drop it at the right altitude over the lase and pull out right away, don't even need to use flares if you do this the right way.

But this only works because you will not be exposed to AA (can't get lock on and engage you if it is just barely out of range) and because LGBs as opposed to LGMs aquire a lase instantly the moment you are in range of it, so you are not forced to directly fly towards the lase and/or stay on target for an extended period, hence if you are skilled enough you can avoid ever entering the AA's envelope (granted that you have an accurate lase and its location info).

CAS_ual_TY wrote:Yes dedmenfetish you fucking nob
fucking start parctice

here is good video to start:



(Funny how I have to post this video for the 4th time now)

You just have to git gud lmao. Stop complaining and ask transpilot for some tips lol.

But on a serious note, yeah, constant CAS nerfs slowly drew me away from the game. It was one of my favorite aspects even though I do enjoy playing everything else. I remember long dogfights on radiant Kashan and you even had a chance to break contact. Sure AA was never perfect but at least you had to lock on to the plane back then.

Can't we just revert to the older system already? I mean it was so quick to try this "new" AA system, why can't we just go back and try the old system again?

If the system was critically flawed, then maybe, but in summation the only downsides to the system is the bug that causes dedicated AAs to virtually never miss and air fights not lasting longer but it could be argued that that would be the expected outcome in any real engagement.

What causes the new system to rob you the fun of playing the game is - in a nutshell - your inability to play the game according to what the AA threat level actually is like as opposed to what you think it should be. If you were to treat any part of the map that has AA or is likely to have AA prepared as a "do not strike"-zone, your asset would last longer. But that actually takes effort, right?

Honestly the lethality of AAVs is nowhere near as annoying as the dogfights are boring.

I do agree with the fact that a lot of people have not adapted yet, properly. But A2A missiles are simply undodgable. The skill ceiling has been lowered so much that years of experience only help very slightly against total noobs. Before AA and flares changed that was not the case. You would not be 100% safe if you were better than the enemy jets but you were far more likely to win the dogfight.

Here's a slight idea and not perfectly thoughten out. I personally like the state of AAVs and ground AA balance, they are deadly but not impossible like some state. Why not make A2A missles a little worse against jets, or you could even reduce their damage thereby increasing the length of a dogfight, the ability to evade and manouver or to run to friendly AA. Leave ground AA as is, in my opinion its the best its been since pre 1.0

Lmao chris, i've seen you fly, you don't even preflare. If you think you can escape the clutches of an avenger with a fighter jet just let me in an avenger have a go at you, then see if your opinion changes. From when i was in your CAS squad i can tell that whenever you say you got away from AA it was either the AA not even firing or some potatoes in AA that didn't know what they were doing. Then after, you use those instances of dumb coincidence to proclaim that AA is fine. You barely do any jet CAS at all and just cherry pick stuff instead of looking at the broad picture.

With the right technique as good as every missile from an AAV is guarenteed to hit a fighter jet, regardless of your flaring pattern.

The last CAS round i had literally went like this (on khami):

Shot down all 3 jets with my A10, then one by one all of our jets were taken out by various ground AA, even though we were preflaring and only going for lases. When the enemy jets respawned i took an avenger to our defense flag and within a span of 5 minutes shot down all 3 of their jets again, each of them on the first try.

You see, those 'fools' thought they were safe because two of them preflared and stayed pretty far away (SU-25 was a tard and flew low without flaring), little did they know it doesn't matter to an AA operator that knows how to abuse the system (and it isn't even hard to do). It doesn't matter what they do once they are in my detection range, all that matters is that i see them and can aim at them.

Lol ok, i love how everyone brings in their e-peen. Its fine, youre wrong, the end. Its amazing how anytime I don't die to AA either through staying away, coming from a certain angle or just pure luck its because everyone else is bad at the game, but anytime you die to it, its because the game is broken and not a players fault. Yes every pilot has been shot through a shit ton of flares and been like wtf was that, every player on the ground has also had a perfect shot from AA, no preflares and a flare launched after missle launch, just for it to dodge. Its PR, there are random instances and fucked up shit, but the current system is one of the more balanced ones compared to others that have been around in the past few recent years.

Also going in for lase vs no lase has nothing to do with if you should survive. yes generally when you go for a lase you are visible for less time, but you still show yourself to the enemy. vast majority of CAS squads don't give a fuck about AA in area, they just hear their spotter(if they have one, a growing number of cas squads dont use spotters for some reason) say tank and instantly all jets converge badgering the spotter about lase, lase, lets go im coming, hurry up. Everyone is so kill hungry they don't slow it down and take a second.

Anyways I avoided this thread for a while because its just retarded back and forth with nothing really happening, and after a quick post Dog proved me correct. Instant way to argue is say they suck at cas and argument is invalid. I'll completely admit I'm not the best dogfighter, I'm alright and have some good days and bad days, but its not my strongest suit. On the other hand I love ground attack and pride myself on it, I still get killed, I still do shit sometimes, but its PR and wouldn't be fun if it was easy mode and every time you dropped below 1000 popped a few flares and you're safe.

Little problems..hm.The relationship between aircraft and AA defense are a bit tricky in this mod.I'll take it as an example Kashan Desert map:
2x Attack helicopters VS 10x rockets AA(fixed AA) + 4 rockets myb more AA vehicles +2 handAA.Which means that old player living 10 min,and new 5 min in Attack helicopter.
We all know that most players grab the special kits.Consequently, the role of air support is reduced(miserable).Therefore, the gameplay is lost because there is no need for airborne defense either.In all this, I do not count the transport helicopters which can be take down by other weapons.In the real world, we all know that attack planes do not go beneath 5000m...
-the range of some AA missiles is set as in rl,flares.....
And there is a conflict between weapons in the real world and virtual(game).They simply do not go with each other.AA+flares can be repaired fine tuning ,but it takes time and testing time for that.My opinion is that we should work more at game-play then rl characteristics arsenal.

There's no real flame on your screen, it's just magic
greetings

Look chris, i didn't say you are a nub, i know you are really good in ground assets, better than me, and also good in CAS. It wasn't about pure flaming. I am just a bit triggered that some people still call this AA system balanced or reasonable after literally so much proof in form of videos and player experiences to show the complete opposite.

And it is always people who either play no CAS or don't play CAS frequently, everyone i know of that plays CAS regulary agrees AA is fucked. And i think they are the most qualified to judge, since they use both ground AA and jets very often. And most CAS players actually don't want to have it super easy, they want a challenge. If AA was too ineffective bombing a lot of stuff would become boring really quick because there would be no real challenge, therefore no reward. It would be no more fun than bombing vehicles on test_airfield. We want challenging but fair CAS gameplay.

The system right now is wrong not only becaue AA missiles are OP but also because it is wrong on a fundamental gameplay level. As seen in my video, once an AA missile has decided to go for your jet the only course of action to survive is to turn towards the missile head on and exploit a glitch where the missile hits the top of the jet and explodes without dealing damage to your jet.

This should never be your best option, common sense alone tells you deploying countermeasures and flying away from the threat should be.
But fuck i would even prefer if they remove the bug where you can survive missiles hitting the top of your jet from the front, even though it would take away the last real option to defeat an incoming missile. Because it just feels stupid having to fly towards an AA missile to defeat it.

I am also tired of the argument that AA should be super effective at any range since view distance is only 1km. Don't you guys realise that air combat and AA is supposed to be scaled down in PR?

We aren't dropping LGBs from 5-10km altitude, or shoot MRAAMs and LGMs from 20km away. We are deploying these weapons only from 1km range ingame. So since jets are robbed of their safer standoff distances by draw distance limitations it stands to reason that a similar downscale of effective range should also apply to AA missiles. IRL when flying at the altitude where LGBs are released dodging a small short range SAM isn't too hard. It would be nice if PR could emulate the most basic principles from this sim (obviously missile proportional navigation and different energy levels are probably not possible in BF2 engine):



I'd much rather have a system where AA has a high chance to kill low flying aircraft or aircraft that is flying towards the AA and a relatively low chance (but still a decent chance) to kill aircraft flying far out in the distance and flying away from the AA and doing evasive manouvers while deploying countermeasures. Makes the most sense and seems fair for all parties involved.

CAS_ual_TY wrote:I do agree with the fact that a lot of people have not adapted yet, properly. But A2A missiles are simply undodgable. The skill ceiling has been lowered so much that years of experience only help very slightly against total noobs. Before AA and flares changed that was not the case. You would not be 100% safe if you were better than the enemy jets but you were far more likely to win the dogfight.

learn2fly and avoid AAs

transpilot123 wrote:learn2fly and avoid AAs

Shouldn't ground AA defend against CAS? If I put a guy in a exposed AA position, to look at the sky for however long it takes for a jet to appear, with nothing else to do, I expect him to stop any jet from bombing us. Especially if we also have the handheld. He should also be able to protect some of the area around us so assets around can be safe.

There are so many other ways to kill off an AA position that it should at least be able to do the single job it does.

How air to air combat should be is another discussion.

transpilot123 wrote:learn2fly and avoid AAs

enjoy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbExG4 ... r9A/videos