Project Reality Forums

Hurricane wrote:Except FOBs are MUCH bigger, audible and require crates that are often the first thing you will find.

I've suggested RPs be made audible.

Hurricane wrote:Basically what you're suggesting is indeed making Rallys "Mini-FOBs" that are pretty much independent from supplies.

No - I have stated that the Officer kit should get ONE RP as standard, and this can only be resupplied via a resupply crate. Also, RPs only spawn the squad that placed it.

Hurricane wrote:The majority of players here are against the current (1.0b) system already and you want to make the RPs even more "powerful"? Good luck finding any support for that ...

Not at all. I've proposed that RPs become more reliant on active player input from both teams, instead of a passive effort for both.

Not sure you read my post to be honest.

Dogfart wrote: Attracting/competing new players from BF3/COD, etc. Meaning, PR has one helluva learning curve requiring a lot of patience for the PR-curious so if/when the above conditions exist maybe some "spawn-crack" keeps a noob around long enough for the vet's to explain the beauty of our beloved PR?

Or maybe, getting killed every 2 minutes after respawning 100m away would make them really frustrated? Brand new players on the game rarely if ever do well in combat. Those lulls in it, that are cut to about 20 seconds due to new rallies, are the best time to teach a new player what they need to know for the immediate future.

And, some "Reality" of a different stripe...I play mostly during prime time (8pm-12am) and there's 2 servers cooking: HOG and CIA. And, they're full with a waiting list. More people = more servers = growth. Face it, PR needs it.

If deployed strategically the "spam-bags" might siphon some new blood from the console world.

I really don't see how. Most console players I know hate PR but love CoD and BF3, personally I'd rather have most of them stay there because for the majority of them, teamwork doesn't factor in.

All said "spam-bags" do is give an attacking squad chance to respawn and attack before the defenders have revived.

I had my first real go at SL last night.

Assaulting a pretty tough bunker on saareama, I drop the rally close enough so it stays and we get 4 goes before tickets run out.

I didn't co ordinate, I didn't need to call crates and build a FOB. Everyone was pretty much tied up on the last flag.

I like it and I don.t. I'm not spending time 're grouping the squad or building a FOB, just fighting.

Overall I don.t think it is good for PR, I think the 981 would be better.

Removing the ability to take out FOBs quick to encourage teamwork and coordination, while having a permanent rally point that's giving us continuous reinforcements and reckless attacking; thus no fear of dying. High five guys! High fucking five!

Infraction given for the general attitude problem you showed in the past few days. - Spec

With the Give Up being delayed, i'm not even sure if the RPs were changed at all. Were they? Things were much different after that but in a good way. Did the Give Up delay fix the permanent RP complaints?

saXoni wrote:Removing the ability to take out FOBs quick to encourage teamwork and coordination, while having a permanent rally point that's giving us continuous reinforcements and reckless attacking; thus no fear of dying. High five guys! High fucking five!

Infraction given for the general attitude problem you showed in the past few days. - Spec

Infraction given yeah, but at the end of the day he's just expressing the same frustrations as everyone else opposed to current rallies. I agree completely, these RPs really counteract any attempt to make the game tactical, now it's just "Place rally here, rush point until it's capped". My squad on fool's road earlier ended up with somewhere in the region of 30 deaths by the end of the round, which didn't even last long in the first place.

MiamiHeat87 wrote: Did the Give Up delay fix the permanent RP complaints?

Did it buggery, it's still the same. Wait until squad is wiped, spawn on rally, run in again and get killed, wait for the rest of the squad to get wiped, spawn back in once 30 seconds have passed. Revives rarely happen within 30s of getting incap'd anyway.

saXoni wrote:Removing the ability to take out FOBs quick to encourage teamwork and coordination, while having a permanent rally point that's giving us continuous reinforcements and reckless attacking; thus no fear of dying. High five guys! High fucking five!

Infraction given for the general attitude problem you showed in the past few days. - Spec

Believe it or not Spec, we're "all" starting to get frustrated at how lackluster the response from the Dev Team is. I mean, disabling giving up for 50 secs is one thing, but it did not address the root of the problem, it just diminishes a bit of the effects. The feedback in this thread has been(for the most part) quite negative, and the only legitimate positive aspects mentioned by the "Pro Rally Change" players were the increase in action and nothing more. And even that is debateable, I play this game for reasons different than action, and so do many others. I haven't had much time to play the Beta during the week, but when I did, I did not set any of those myself, and sometimes asked for them not to be dropped because I thought of it as a blatant abuse of a broken mechanic(both sides can (ab-)use it, but that doesn't mean I absolutely have to join in myself).

When Challenger made a thread about the RPs before 1.0 arrived the thread got locked by you if I recall correctly,(I am NOT holding this against you or anybody else), encouraging us to play before we judge, despite the attributes for the new RPs already being known(permanent and fast reloadable)and thus speculation about them possible(even more so since they have been reverted to a formerly used and dropped format). Now, that we finally got to playtest this whole thing out and see how it works inside the game, you have your feedback and besides some people getting a little upset in their tone, their feedback has been on point and well constructed, as opposed to the "Pro Rally Changer", who happen drop a few lines of "More action that way, it's all good" and then leave.

Nobody else will build fobs. The fobs utility lost!!!!
Another downside is that nobody is afraid to die, like a vanilla game, the duration of the maps did not arrive until half 3:30hr because there is a huge burn tickets. Nobody secures vehicles, jets, all respawn faster, like a vanilla game.

Frontliner wrote:Believe it or not Spec, we're "all" starting to get frustrated at how lackluster the response from the Dev Team is. I mean, disabling giving up for 50 secs is one thing, but it did not address the root of the problem, it just diminishes a bit of the effects. The feedback in this thread has been(for the most part) quite negative, and the only legitimate positive aspects mentioned by the "Pro Rally Change" players were the increase in action and nothing more. And even that is debateable, I play this game for reasons different than action, and so do many others. I haven't had much time to play the Beta during the week, but when I did, I did not set any of those myself, and sometimes asked for them not to be dropped because I thought of it as a blatant abuse of a broken mechanic(both sides can (ab-)use it, but that doesn't mean I absolutely have to join in myself).

When Challenger made a thread about the RPs before 1.0 arrived the thread got locked by you if I recall correctly,(I am NOT holding this against you or anybody else), encouraging us to play before we judge, despite the attributes for the new RPs already being known(permanent and fast reloadable)and thus speculation about them possible(even more so since they have been reverted to a formerly used and dropped format). Now, that we finally got to playtest this whole thing out and see how it works inside the game, you have your feedback and besides some people getting a little upset in their tone, their feedback has been on point and well constructed, as opposed to the "Pro Rally Changer", who happen drop a few lines of "More action that way, it's all good" and then leave.

Totally agree!!!

I was too lazy to get here and spew my frustration till I played some proper round (no solo derping etc, dont judge me) and all the pre-0.9X (when rally points where "removed" patch) nostalgia hit me back:



IIRC, Peninsula got white after we capped that Airfield thing, and it wasnt a close fight, we just raped em'. Point is, just like the old'bad times even if you cap a flag, until you do a thorough forest bag hunt you wont ever clear a flag for real.
We got back to peninsula pwning more stuff, rolling in the woods like derps with the APCs and killing things yet it took us around 10 minutes to start capping back the damn thing as they kept coming back like roaches.

TL;DR: Its frustrating and diminishes from the achievement of killing derps and "securing" areas. Also its an even bigger .l. and RIP on fobs/logi cuz now people can just spawn grenadiers and LATs straight from the RP, GG, well thought out, KTHNXBB.

..oh and we actually have players to spare for logi/transport roles while keeping the combat interesting (100p yo?) now dont we? So uhm.. why?

Frontliner wrote:Believe it or not Spec, we're "all" starting to get frustrated at how lackluster the response from the Dev Team is. I mean, disabling giving up for 50 secs is one thing, but it did not address the root of the problem, it just diminishes a bit of the effects. The feedback in this thread has been(for the most part) quite negative, and the only legitimate positive aspects mentioned by the "Pro Rally Change" players were the increase in action and nothing more. And even that is debateable, I play this game for reasons different than action, and so do many others. I haven't had much time to play the Beta during the week, but when I did, I did not set any of those myself, and sometimes asked for them not to be dropped because I thought of it as a blatant abuse of a broken mechanic(both sides can (ab-)use it, but that doesn't mean I absolutely have to join in myself).

When Challenger made a thread about the RPs before 1.0 arrived the thread got locked by you if I recall correctly,(I am NOT holding this against you or anybody else), encouraging us to play before we judge, despite the attributes for the new RPs already being known(permanent and fast reloadable)and thus speculation about them possible(even more so since they have been reverted to a formerly used and dropped format). Now, that we finally got to playtest this whole thing out and see how it works inside the game, you have your feedback and besides some people getting a little upset in their tone, their feedback has been on point and well constructed, as opposed to the "Pro Rally Changer", who happen drop a few lines of "More action that way, it's all good" and then leave.

Spot on. I don't get why I keep coming back to this thread to argue against 1.0 RPs because everyone else is doing it for me.

I don't get why it was even made like this in the first place. Was it requested, or did someone on the dev team go "Right I prefer pre .95 rallies put them back now" and that's that? With the amount of negative response and walls of text detailing exactly why these RPs are a detriment to PR's gameplay, I'll be pissed off if they're just left in. Again, there's no real incentive, other than the fact everyone communicates, to play this over BF3 or CoD or whatever mainstream game people make comparisons with to PR constantly.
Deviation changes, faster dug FOBs and an extra 36 players per server is PLENTY more action. Changes to FOB destruction, binocular removal and kits encourage tighter teamplay; This is all good. But it's undermined by Zerg rush spawn points. If anything, I'd say remove RP's completely but that's just my opinion. .98 rallies have their use and can't really be abused. 1.0/pre .95 have their use, which completely overshadows anything that encourages coordination between squads - transport, logistics and strategy. You might as well remove all non-combat vehicles from the game if you're gonna keep these rallies.

I'm done tapping away at my keyboard trying to express how counter-intuitive these RPs are. However, if they don't get removed, I'll be forced to rack my brains for every vulgar word I know to spit them out here.

Devs - 1.0 is awesome, except for these rallies (and deviation in my opinion). Don't let this system undermine all the effort you've put in to get 1.0 out.

I feel that as long as rallies will be a primary source of fresh meat on the battlefield the Spook's post's arguments will hold.
The only thing that the introduction of delay: wounded-give up done is some players frustrated that they cannot give up right away. It did not change the players' perception of the value of their life in game. Still the best way to keep the rally up and therefore keep the position is to respawn on the rally as fast as possible and keep charging. The increased overrun radius did next to nothing.

While during the beta such tactics was easiest to spot on Saarema, it still occurred elsewhere like on Ramiel.

And to be frank, IMHO, and so on - all the rally change did in 1.0 beta was disturbing the gameplay, taking the experience a few levels down.

So all in all - given you posses a powerful testing tool - the launcher - just consider testing 100p gameplay with .98 rallies.

I think the RP should not be there forever. Maybe it should just be there for 30mins max?

I suggest to adjust the spawning system by using following options:
Logistics usage: Using all kind of non-combat transport.
Teamwork: Communication between team-members in order to succeed the victory, in-squad teamwork, etc.
Defence careness: Defending the spawn points from being overrun.
Average round time: The average time of game round.


For example 0.98: (imho)
Logistics usage: ** (Returnings the trucks/logies back to spawn points, saving them from being destroyed by lone wolfs, still sh*ts like wasting and dangerous driving took place)
Teamwork: *** ("More problems - more communication")
Defence careness: *** (Mostly because noone likes to sit and wait, "Attacking is the best defence, isn't it?!")
Average round time: 1hr 10 min


What I saw in 1.0 Open Beta:
Logistics usage: * (Mostly at the beginning of round)
Teamwork: ** (Maybe because of all new things people were more excited to see them, than play organized, but still we are talking about same players playing previous versions of PR...)
Defence careness: * (We have permanent RPs, noone cares about FOBs. Defending rally points, wtf?)
Average round time: 1hr - 1.5hr (Inaccurate because of all instabilities and server crashes during open beta test)



More thoughts to come out:
1) It's really annoying the way you can use the Rally Points to intel of enemies, whenever you place it or it is being overrun. Really hard to consume it as reality.
2) The AAS games, are more like concentrate battles for two flags in the middle of the map. I've never seen successful "game turns" on first flags during beta testing, which I loved so much in 0.98. It gives more options to expand gameplay and huge satisfaction in the end.
3) Playing as SL, most of the time was hard to operate with the whole squad due to people often used the opportunity just to re-spawn at the rally, instead of being at least responsible squad-member.
4) Thinking of timing and players. Having average round time about 45 min (like school lesson), will reduce people of getting tired/bored. And possible will help growing the community of players. People hate to be overwhelmed especially during playing games. It also may cause big amount of BS coming after playing a while, like wasting assets, TKing trolling, lone-wolfing, etc...

Personally i didn't find anything wrong with the way it is in 0.98 were rallies are used to spawn in when a guy joins or the like. But if you decide to keep them i would say increase the radius in which they are overrun(relative to map size aswell) so they are not a reliable spawn point close to the battle.

007.SirBond i like your proposal and i agree .I believe trying to find the right place to build a FOB is one of the "magic things" in PR. Also search and destroy an enemy FOB is very interesting

ChallengerCC wrote:Here are some numbers for the devs and the community. I take some time and counted the posts (not double ones).

I did this because of an discourse with K4on this night about the new Version. And he sad that a lot of people like the new RP. And i don't believed his argument at all.

Here are the facts.
(I don't guaranty for some miscounts but the big difference between the numbers talk for them self's)


Contra: 70
Pro: 23
Neutral: 28

I heard that some surveys was started ingame and a lot of player counted for the new RP-System. I don't know how representative this is surveys ingame are, but i know that a lot of players like action but if this new ones or casual PR gamer represents PR i dont know. The devs need to decide if they want a bigger action like community or a smaler faithfuly one. More player will come to PR with action thats for sure, if its a good decission i dont think so. They will not stay for so long i think.
The devs and the community should proselytize and show this action gamers that teamwork and a high value of life can make a hell of fun and adrenaline.






For me will this be the last thing i will add to this action versus tactic point (RP related). It makes no fun any more to fight against this constantly action movement. It realy sucks and take me a lot of time. 99% of all games out there are nothing else then pure action.
Game play like in PR don't exists out there and when go over to that 99% PR is nothing else than this other titles.
So why this peoples who like action dont take one of this 99% and play it.
We the tactic guys cant do this, because they don't exist and ArmA without a game play and a big played mod is not a option. Its a coop and closed community game.

All was sad. I am out now from this discusssion.

i fully support this and many other posts against the new RP-system. Thx for all you guys who try to keep the gameplay of Project Reality what it always was, what it should be and hopefully will be in the future.

Just wanted to step in here and clear something up.

We've chosen for the most part to stay out of the community debate regarding rally points in order to keep the discussion relatively pure. We want your feedback, and we want it unfettered (albeit focused and constructive). The importance of settling on the correct RP system appears to be self-evident.

There are revisions planned for rallies in the full release, which I will let one of the leads elaborate on if they're so inclined.

permanent hally points =
-vanila game.
-without fear of dying;
-do not need more fobs;
-no longer need strategies to keep themselves alive;

PR 1.0 reality level = equal to bf3 where members can respawn with squad.