Project Reality Forums

Well, I am guilty of it myself, but I this we all just saw an example of PR elitism in this thread

The guy may have been a troll, but what if he weren't? We would still treat people like that.

I think we should have said something to the effect of:

"I am sorry you think that, perhaps if you were patient enough with the manual and the mod itself, you would have had a better experience as we often do.

Good Day, Piss Off."

We have die-hard, elitist players who are scaring away new blood...and trolls.

Watch yourself next time folks.

Agree ace, this mentioned thread is a shame for the PR community.
Immature reactions everywhere.

I hate those types of people. I've been playing for 4 years now and I would gladly share all my experience and know how, instead of being a jerk. If you know an answer to someone's question, why not just give them an answer instead of being all snarky about it, otherwise don't bother saying anything.

Yeah. I dare say an immature elitist is more dangerous to community health than an immature not-elitist (After several minutes of struggling to find a politically correct term).

Finals got me pretty bad. Plus no updates to PR in over a year, and games like Dayz. Really looking foward to playing again. After the 4th of july you bet i'm on PR.

I did try and help in my first post, although I did think it was a little to much of troll bait to make an account just for the OP to type what he did. Hence the Wii tennis remark.

Acemantura wrote:Well, I am guilty of it myself, but I this we all just saw an example of PR elitism in this thread

The guy may have been a troll, but what if he weren't? We would still treat people like that.

I think we should have said something to the effect of:

"I am sorry you think that, perhaps if you were patient enough with the manual and the mod itself, you would have had a better experience as we often do.

Good Day, Piss Off."

We have die-hard, elitist players who are scaring away new blood...and trolls.

Watch yourself next time folks.

That guy was a close-minded dickhead. Anyone who is incapable of simplistic cause and effect logic or at the least, common sense, shouldn't be playing the game anyway.

This is of course coming to the conclusion that he wasn't a troll. I'm perfectly happy to be rude and pompous to anyone who comes to this game either expecting to be entirely spoon-fed or for everything to go their way.

I got to agree with Dtacs.

Yes we want the community to grow, but that does not mean we should lower our standards.

If your not willing to read the manual or ask for help and just come in criticizing the mod then PR isnt for you. The guy probably spent more time writing his post than actually looking into how things work.

Elitism, coming to a game near you.



I was actually on the hardcore server with the kid. He maybe spouted 3 sentences. Not much else.

On another note, regardless we all at some point are ****** bags that act like hot shit. Don't even deny it. I do it when i'm pissed if I know i've seen some of you do it for a fact. Do you want to be the anti-helping ******** that tell everyone that isn't like you to leave or atleast make an attempt to help them with some patience in that sandwich your serving?

dtacs wrote:That guy was a close-minded dickhead. Anyone who is incapable of simplistic cause and effect logic or at the least, common sense, shouldn't be playing the game anyway.

This is of course coming to the conclusion that he wasn't a troll. I'm perfectly happy to be rude and pompous to anyone who comes to this game either expecting to be entirely spoon-fed or for everything to go their way.

I dare to disagree.

I already posted my view on things in the particular topic, but sadly my effort got totally ignored.

Nowadays people are not really used to "work their way into something", especially not on the internet. This has nothing to do with your suitability for a certain game like PR, it's just the way information (like how a game is played) is dealt with today. You notice it yourself, when you can't find a certain information on Wiki or don't find a menu option for your cell phone. You become unpatient, perhaps even get in rage because things don't work at the first go, as you are used to in most cases.

Sometimes you just need a slight "push" towards the right direction of thinking, or just another motivation to believe that the effort of working your way into something is really worth it. Such a motivation could be to have a friendly community and people telling you that you did it the wrong way and had not the full experience which was possible. That way you know it could pay to try it again, and perhaps the second time it's not that bad like the first time, and you start to like it.

If not, you just wrote a post which a) should not be much longer than a flame post, and b) presented your community well to outsiders.

Remember the basic rule: if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Seriously, read my post in that topic.

Some people seem to be equating responding and reacting to an inflammatory post in a like-for-like manner as elitism... I think some people need to look up what the world elitism means...



[For your reference, the sentences preceding this one, and probably this one, would be a good example of actual elitism].

Actually it's their explanation for their flaming which makes the elitism. It's along the lines of "Everything else than flaming him would be wasted time, he isn't suitable for PR anyway".

Joker86 wrote:Actually it's their explanation for their flaming which makes the elitism. It's along the lines of "Everything else than flaming him would be wasted time, he isn't suitable for PR anyway".

The attitude and commitment he showcased in his single post made the decision quite easy. If someone lacks the time and patience to check on the most simple things and or which can be figured out through common sense, prove that he is indeed unsuitable for PR. I don't have anything against new players, I've spent countless hours teaching them and explained how this and that works but if someone just says fuck this, this is gay, or doesn't even take the time to ask, IMO he can freely go and play something else.

Not saying the community has become better, quite the opposite is the case, never seen so many unfriendly and isolated players but the things I've mentioned above, in terms of commitment and right-minded, were the same through-out all the years of PR and should stay the same.

As someone said, even if we lack the numbers, we shouldn't lower our standards, otherwise will PR become everything but PR. This is not elitism but a requirement to have and keep what defined this mod through-out the years. Your rather naive view of things makes me smile, not everyone, actually only very few are suited for games like PR and similar.

By showcasing videos of high quality, which demonstrate PR of the highest level, you can get the numbers together. By presenting fancy models, textures and herpa derp vids, you won't get the right players into PR, no matter how hard you try to convince them of it. Players that refuse to look into it and behave bad, while maybe still being good potential PR players, are rare and rather the exception than the common rule.

Brainlaag wrote:As someone said, even if we lack the numbers, we shouldn't lower our standards, otherwise will PR become everything but PR. This is not elitism but a requirement to have and keep what defined this mod through-out the years. Your rather naive view of things makes me smile, not everyone, actually only very few are suited for games like PR and similar.

+ 1'000'000

Brainlaag wrote: Players the refuse to look into it and behave bad, while maybe still being good potential PR players, are rare and rather the exception than the common rule.

But those few exceptions are the reason why you should always treat anybody nicely. Next to the factor of creating a friendly community.

We do agree that most of those players who behave like this are not suitable for PR. That's obvious. But the thing is, you can't tell for sure after reading only one or two posts of him. Yes, you can make an assumption, and it will be right by a high amount of percent, but there are also a few percent chance of him just never have "thought" the way you need to play PR, although being capable of it. I hope you know what I mean.

And I don't see where nice behaviour could lower the standards. In the end it's the game which sorts out the players. It's not like patient and friendly explanations could motivate a CoD-kiddy to play PR for a longer time. Perhaps it would give it another try, see that things work out better, but sooner or later it would get bored by the slow pace of the gameplay and the low impact of reflexes and aiming on your success and finally leave. But if someone does like such a gameplay, I say he is suitable for PR.

I think an important part of maintaining the standards is rather how you are lead into the game, by the mod download description and the manual. Because a very new player can be seen like a small child now in some aspects. At this point he has the highest potential to learn things and create the right habits. For example to always communicate with the team and in best case to always use mumble. I for myself read at one or two points that mumble is highly recommended for the game, and knowing that it's about reality and teamwork I knew mumble is basically a part of the PR mod. But even if sounding arrogant, I don't think you can expect this insight from everybody.

But if someone carefully reads into the manual and gets along with the game, although never creating the habit of using mumble or even teamwork at all, you can be sure on long term he won't be such a good player like someone who is used to coordinate with others. Which means, that maintaining standards has nothing (okay, not exclusively) to do with "recruiting" players, it's rather a question of their "training".

Thats the point, if you let new players, whom you almost for certain know they won't be a good addition to the PR community, on a server, they lower the overall quality of the gameplay FOR EVERYONE. Do you want to sacrifice all your time for something that might bring some fruits delivering maybe 2-3 new individuals to the mod? Thats IMO just a drawback, not a gain.

Its only a question of a new player being interested in this game or just downloading it because of reasons... I would never be a good Magic the gathering player, because i dont find such card games fun, but some other people do and get into it, thats how you become a pro.

Brainlaag wrote:Thats the point, if you let new players, whom you almost for certain know they won't be a good addition to the PR community, on a server, they lower the overall quality of the gameplay FOR EVERYONE. Do you want to sacrifice all your time for something that might bring some fruits delivering maybe 2-3 new individuals to the mod? Thats IMO just a drawback, not a gain.

Every noob lowers the overall quality on the servers, without exception. This changes as soon as he makes the decision whether he wants to keep on playing that mod or not. If he does not (because he is unsuitable for PR), he will stop. If he does (because he IS suitable for PR. There is no other possibility, because the gameplay itself sorts out the unsuitable ones), he will keep on playing and he will improve. That's the only way how it works. You can't tell before how it will end up with a particular player. You can make a prediction, and perhaps you can be right in most cases, but in the end only the try can deliver the final result. I don't think that the overall quality on the servers would suffer a lot from that. If you start some kind of "advertisment campaign" for PR you will have a lot of noobs on the servers, anyway. You must swallow that if you want more PR players.

Again I think the mod description is the key here, because if you tell people that "skill", aiming and reflexes are not that important, that everything is kept rather realistic and unspectacular, that the gameplay is not really forgiving and that you spend a lot of time running, waiting or digging I think most players who are not suited for the game should be deterred. If someone downloads the mod despite (or because) of this description and still flames like the last guy there, I think it's worth to motivate him for another try, becauses chances are good he IS a PR player. He just needs to learn it.

That aside, there is still the argument of having a friendly community, which is worth a lot. Being (believably) friendly also involves being friendly to people who do not like your mod.

Joker86 wrote: I don't think that the overall quality on the servers would suffer a lot from that. If you start some kind of "advertisment campaign" for PR you will have a lot of noobs on the servers, anyway. You must swallow that if you want more PR players.

Oh it will, it will, trust me.

Joker86 wrote:Again I think the mod description is the key here, because if you tell people that "skill", aiming and reflexes are not that important, that everything is kept rather realistic and unspectacular, that the gameplay is not really forgiving and that you spend a lot of time running, waiting or digging I think most players who are not suited for the game should be deterred. If someone downloads the mod despite (or because) of this description and still flames like the last guy there, I think it's worth to motivate him for another try, becauses chances are good he IS a PR player. He just needs to learn it.

You don't seem to understand the downside of it. Look, you lower the gameplay quality for everyone for a guy that showed not to be the best of interests, that proved not to be willing to sit down and learn a bit by himself, who proved not to be willing to ask someone to help him. Basically you trade in the nerves of all players for a very slim possibility of getting him somehow involved into PR. You can't force people to play it and normally the first impression mediates your expectations towards the game. It's very hard and sometimes not worth it trying to change the first blink a guy got from the mod.

No, thats not the right way, players have to figured out BY THEMSELVES if the game is something they want, or not want. If they managed the first step, recognized this might be something for them, then you step in and give them a hand to master everything. I'm not going to start playing a MMORPG just because I might have fun with it, it's not my genre, it's not what I'm looking for and as such everyone should know if he is into realistic and teamwork involved gameplay. Players that show the commitment do not lower the quality of the gameplay, because players that follow, no matter if they are good or bad at it, lead to the complete consensus and harmony of the community.

However, if you desperately try to push someone to do something, no matter what, even if he gets somehow into PR, you'll always get the feel he doesn't fit in, just as if someone forced him to play it. The right mind-set is the basis for everything.

Sorry, Brainlaag, but I have to unload a full magazine of quotations in a single salvo onto you, because there are several different points I would like to adress: ops:

Brainlaag wrote:You don't seem to understand the downside of it. Look, you lower the gameplay quality for everyone for a guy that showed not to be the best of interests, that proved not to be willing to sit down and learn a bit by himself, who proved not to be willing to ask someone to help him.

Those things are not necessarily needed for being a good PR player. Sure, often it goes hand in hand, but it doesn't need to.

Brainlaag wrote:Basically you trade in the nerves of all players for a very slim possibility of getting him somehow involved into PR.

I guess if he decided to download the mod the possibility isn't THAT slim.

You said it by yourself:

Brainlaag wrote:I'm not going to start playing a MMORPG just because I might have fun with it, it's not my genre, it's not what I'm looking for and as such everyone should know if he is into realistic and teamwork involved gameplay.

Whoever decides to download PR basically agrees that realistic gameplay can be interesting. It's only a question to what extend. Which is a matter of taste, and as we all know, taste can change.

Brainlaag wrote:However, if you desperately try to push someone to do something, no matter what, even if he gets somehow into PR, you'll always get the feel he doesn't fit in, just as if someone forced him to play it. The right mind-set is the basis for everything.

Brainlaag wrote:You can't force people to play it and normally the first impression mediates your expectations towards the game. It's very hard and sometimes not worth it trying to change the first blink a guy got from the mod.

I don't think that a friendly explanation of the issues the player has and the plea to try it another time with the explanations in the back of his head could be called "force".

And of course there are expectations towards the game, and the comparison between the expectations and the first impression when actually playing it define the player's attitude towards the mod. That's why I strongly recommend to change the mod description on the webside and add another click before you can download the mod, where you are asked to decide whether you are willing to play a game where you are waiting or running 80% of the time or more. If so, then PROCEED.

And next to this I think that if someone makes a thread like that last one, and writes a rather long post, he wants something. Chances are good it's some kind of "That can't be the mod. I imagined it totally different. Please tell me you didn't mean my fist experiences seriously. Tell me it's actually better. I don't want to waste my time trying it out myself, because right now I want, but can't believe it's better than that."-wish.

Brainlaag wrote:No, thats not the right way, players have to figured out BY THEMSELVES if the game is something they want, or not want. If they managed the first step, recognized this might be something for them, then you step in and give them a hand to master everything.

That's the point. Perhaps we should improve the first steps for new players somehow.

Brainlaag wrote:Players that show the commitment do not lower the quality of the gameplay, because players that follow, no matter if they are good or bad at it, lead to the complete consensus and harmony of the community.

I don't think that there is any link between how well you master your first steps on the server and how much you are willing to play/talk/socialize with others and follow the orders of some random persons on the internet. I bet there are a lot of PR player who never logged in to the forum or started mumble, and yet they play the mod for a long time and know most of the time what they are doing. Some people are just more introverted than others. Actually they are members of the playership, but not of the community. Of course that's not a good thing, but I think it has little to do with how well your first steps went.