Project Reality Forums

My points stand. The only thing I can agree with you on is this:

Joker86 wrote:And of course there are expectations towards the game, and the comparison between the expectations and the first impression when actually playing it define the player's attitude towards the mod. That's why I strongly recommend to change the mod description on the webside and add another click before you can download the mod, where you are asked to decide whether you are willing to play a game where you are waiting or running 80% of the time or more. If so, then PROCEED.

Well, at least something.

Basically all I want is, that the next time someone opens a thread or writes a post where he complains about the game, never mind in which from/tone, the other players pull their punches and only write something to explain/clarify the issue.

Something like:

"What the fuck is this piece of **** mod? I can't hit the braod side of a barn with those weapons you totally fucked them up! And Reloading takes like ages, other games have faster reloading, how am I supposed to survive a shootout when my weapon needs longer to reload than to empty its magazine?"

"Hi! Welcome to the forums!

Sad to hear you have issues with the game, but let's try to help you out:

You are right, the weapons have been changed compared to vanilla BF2, but there is a trick: deviation has been implemented, so if you move your weapon becomes more inaccurate, as it is in reality, which this mod tries to simulate. If you stop you need 5 seconds to gain maximum precision. If you move one second you need one second to regain max accuracy, if you move for three seconds you need three seconds and so on, to the maximum of five seconds. Going prone also greatly increases deviation. So if you see an enemy on close range, just stop, crouch, aim your weapon and shoot him. Up to distances of 30m you should be able to hit him reliably.

I understand that the inaccuracy upsets you, especially since there is no indicator for your precision. But in the manual you can find the info about it, together with a lot of other useful stuff.

The increased reloading time is also to represent reality. In reality reloading takes a lot longer than in most modern shooters, and we try to represent this. PR is played differently than similar games like Battlefield or Call of Duty. But if you get used to it, it offers a completely different, and for those who enjoy realistic fights a better experience.

Why don't you give it another try, and accept that you need time to aim and reload? Advance slower, observe your surroundings well, and if you encounter someone shooting you, better go in cover instead of trying to return the fire. And always keep in mind: if an enemy runs into YOU, you are now the one who has the advantage of higher accuracy! If you don't like it, anyway, I fear the mod is not suited for you. But don't give up searching, you will find your favourite one!

But if you post again please watch your language. We are open to all feedback, but please take care it's written in a civil form."

I don't think such a posting can cause a lot of harm to the community ??:

No. If a guy writres such a comment, only thing to do is either ignore or respons with "Go fuck yourself."
However, if a guy writes:

"Hey, whats wrong with this game, i cant hit anything, i even prone, but still..."

And there were situations like this and they got answers they needed, explanations, tutorials etc... Stupid question, stupid answer is what goes when there is a retared troll and that is what happened here. Now we know that he was a troll so we can freely answer him in any form possible. If an outsider looks at that guys post, and then looks at the offensive answer from a community member, and DOES NOT comprehend that the OP was a troll and that the replier was agressive because the troll "deservet it", sadly he also probably doesnt have the intelligence to understand how things work on forums or PR.

A real life example, you are on the street watching this happen from the start:

Jake is a chav and attacks Marc for no reason. Marc fights back, wich results in a fights, at the end Marc beats Jake.
Now a sane person would think that Marc didnt deserve it and would know that Jake is an *******.
If however you would go to Jake and say "Oh no, are you alright, he beat you up pretty good.", there is clearly something wrong with you.

The same applies to forums. If a person cannot judge right from wrong and is turned away because he didnt understand... He has no place in PR anyway.

The example with the self defense is flawed, because you have to defend yourself to protect your health and life. But a post in a forum is something different. It's a discussion. And if someone comes and says "You *******!" and someone else answers "No YOU are the *******!", then I would think both of them are idiots who are not capable of any other behaviour to win discussions than insulting the other. But if one says "You *******." And the other one says "Oh that's your way to talk to people? Well, okay. I tried to help you. Have a nice day anyway.", then I would say that the first one is an idiot, but the second one reacted calmly and kindly, and thus was the superior one.

Eye for an eye was proved as a rather crude philosophy long time ago. Sure, in some cases I support it, but in this case you need to ask yourself what are the pros and cons if you flame back, and what are the pros and cons if you stay friendly. Bottom line I would say staying friendly has more advantages, and that's why it's my reaction of choice.

Of course it requires a bit of selfdiscipline and self-control, but we are all modern, enlightened and educated people, so we should be able to act on a higher level than your instincts and emotional reactions.

My point was if the 3rd person doesnt understand whats happening, he is as supid as those two arguing.

I didn't mean that someone who reads the flame answers of the community suddenly thinks the community is unfriendly or rude. It's obvious what happened, that's for sure. But the neutral reader won't think the community is especially mature or friendly either. And I don't think you should miss the opportunity to prove something different.

By the way forum rules prohibit flaming, they don't even mention the reasons for it, which means it's always forbidden, under any circumstance.

If someone starts posting disgusting pictures, you wouldn't start posting even more disgusting pictures to stop him, would you? Two wrongs don't make a right.

[R-CON]Jafar Ironclad wrote:Yeah. I dare say an immature elitist is more dangerous to community health than an immature not-elitist (After several minutes of struggling to find a politically correct term).

How about mature elitist? There are some players who are skilled, have a couple years experience who just play to puff up their feathers. Thankfully there are more who are friendly ingame and treat new people well. But I think the decline of players is quite dramatic.

I'm so hooked on this game and the prospect of finding another that fills the shoes of this one is depressing as hell. But I may clouded by the fact that I am nursing a torn meniscus cartilage, ACL and MCL, fractured right elbow and cracked rib.

All right, I feel like sending out some good vibes to the Community.

It is summer therefore we do BBQ and hit on girls in short skirts. We take off on holidays or get a summer job.

Just remember that in these days of big evil corporate gaming - that gets boring in months - we have our own community based game. It is the most awesome game!

I mean, I am freakin grown up with stress and a mad boss, and serioulsy don't have time for gaming. But a few times a week I sit down and play with people I know for years now, thanks to the beauty of this game.

We are the game. This dies when we get old and start smoking pipe and fishing salmon. Yes we may get down to fewer players, and yes we need to promote it to friends and the like.

Share the love guys, be proud of this game and that you are part of it.

Sorry for going hippie on your ***.

Peace Out

Joker86 wrote:...

I am positively surprised that the guy with one of the craziest looking avatar pics seems to be the most reasonable person around here.
When you really have that kind of a calm attitude in real and in virtual life...Hats off to you, Sir!

I mean, seriously. Read what he wrote and look at his Avatar every once in a while

KiloJules wrote:I am positively surprised that the guy with one of the craziest looking avatar pics seems to be the most reasonable person around here.
When you really have that kind of a calm attitude in real and in virtual life...Hats off to you, Sir!

I mean, seriously. Read what he wrote and look at his Avatar every once in a while

See if it stays like that after 6+ years of PR

Brainlaag wrote:See if it stays like that after 6+ years of PR

Hahahaha!

Khm, elitism...


Also another thing guys. PR:V gets realeased, every server whores it to death, now nobody play is.
PR gets released, everybody plays 5 maps over and over because those are "popular" and fill servers up, now less people are playing.

Do you see the patern? As i told you before, mandatory random maplist generator with all maps (Unless server locked) would be one solution to that.
Same is happening on commercial radio stations. They only put on Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber, because the majority likes it, but they dont even realise there is more "good stuff" out aswell, the providers dont provide though.

Arnoldio wrote:Mandatory random maplist generator with all maps (Unless server locked) would be one solution to that.

No thank you. The current system of map votes works well enough as the people who are playing get to play what they are interested in.

I'm not a huge fan of insurgency (especially when it's my turn to be insurgent), but if that's what the majority asked for, then I'll have to take my turn of playing modes and maps that I enjoy less.

doop-de-doo wrote:No thank you. The current system of map votes works well enough as the people who are playing get to play what they are interested in.

No, the current system of mapvotes is retardation beyond belief. You only get Qwai, Muttrah, Kashan, Kokan and maybe Beirut and Silent Eagle... I am quite sick and tired of those maps, thats why people are bored. Random generator gives everybody equality. When will you realise that democracy is retarded?

You have 64 players, who then vote for 3 maps and if everybody votes and winner map gets 22 votes, the 42 left are (theoretically) unhappy.

Monotony is killing this mod as soon as the "new" wears off. That is when it shows wich maps are popular and get you people on the server, then is server wars and who plays the popular maps the most and only retards get drawn to those, people like us, who seek thrill in new fucking challenges are left empty handed. There. There is the answer why PR is loosing players. We're (and by we i mean players who know what PR is about not the scum that plaguing the servers) simply sick of playing same shit over and over again. Kashan. Yes its a 4x4, but it has the same flags for the past 30 years, ive been to every damn milimeter of that map, i've done it over and over and over again. Same goes with Muttrah and all those who get people going. Ok, be narrow minded, go play them maps till you die, while there is shitload of map variations or even maps that nobody will touch because the server will die. Some maps have balance issues, crashes etc., i can understand that, but sayin "Nooo, Kozelsk, that sucks, im leaving! " makes me want to curb stomp the person.

Im too pissed off to write anything constructive at the moment so ill stop right here.

Seem's this went quite off topic for a while.

The map vote system is a terrible system, notice how other games most the time have maplist generators or rotations that are followed rather than just changed when an admin dosen't like the next map. Keeps people happy due to variety, I actually stopped playing like others for a while to due to getting bored of kokan. People like to whine about lack of maps yet they run the same ones almost continuously. I love Fallujah, but I also like militia maps, because they are a bit more of a challenge & require more cooperation between the squads.

Democracy fails due to beuraucracy.

If we play more of the maps that aren't played often the maps everyone loves won't get so old so fast. On average you have 5-8 maps running in rotation out of... 30...?

Out of 80 or so, if not even more... each map has 3 layers, maybe even 4 + skirmish...

I know some people are saying the tournament is not the solution to the decline, however, a tourney still is the only known dynamic in the PR universe, where there are too many aspirations to counter any monotony. The PR tourney is without any doubt the only dynamic so far, having been able to create both serious interest and serious activity on a massive scale in both numbers of players as well as time used. Cause a tourney simply produce players - skilled players to the public servers; players with aspirations.

All that is needed is an even more competent tournament staff than deployed previously. As I see it, that's the real obstacle here; to assemble a truly highly competent tournament staff, being a winner staff, wanting to be a winner staff, consisting only of people with really serious function and team aspirations.

Perhaps using 1 or 2 years to assemble such a staff could do the job? Thus things has to be thought even more thoughtfully through, than the last tourney staff was. and I am talking about details here. Function-area for function-area- Every function should be carefully examined for weak points of monotony and motivational issues.

Also, some prize of some sort, a symbolic amount of money or a real unique PR Trophy (made out of stone perhaps) would be a bonus. Just like real tournaments has trophy's, so should ours.

For money, what about funds? NATO, EU or some UN fond perhaps; a cultural-program or veteran-activities-fund? Has anyone ever tried the fund-approach?

Michael_Denmark wrote:I know some people are saying the tournament is not the solution to the decline, however, a tourney still is the only known dynamic in the PR universe, where there are too many aspirations to counter any monotony. The PR tourney is without any doubt the only dynamic so far, having been able to create both serious interest and serious activity on a massive scale in both numbers of players as well as time used. Cause a tourney simply produce players - skilled players to the public servers; players with aspirations.

All that is needed is an even more competent tournament staff than deployed previously. As I see it, that's the real obstacle here; to assemble a truly highly competent tournament staff, being a winner staff, wanting to be a winner staff, consisting only of people with really serious function and team aspirations.

Perhaps using 1 or 2 years to assemble such a staff could do the job? Thus things has to be thought even more thoughtfully through, than the last tourney staff was. and I am talking about details here. Function-area for function-area- Every function should be carefully examined for weak points of monotony and motivational issues.

Also, some prize of some sort, a symbolic amount of money or a real unique PR Trophy (made out of stone perhaps) would be a bonus. Just like real tournaments has trophy's, so should ours.

For money, what about funds? NATO, EU or some UN fond perhaps; a cultural-program or veteran-activities-fund? Has anyone ever tried the fund-approach?

First of all, why do you keep throwing in the PRT here, it was an addition to PR, not the basis of it. It was nice and showcased PR really well but first you need a solid community from which such (skilled) and very passioned individuals can come from.

Second, you can't setup a tourney with the current playerbase, just as you can't play chess with a dog, or monkey. Maybe toss the ball, or throw the stick and thats what basically resembles PR's public play today, mindless playing, similar to any modern FPS game. So many players are not interested into advancing further and improving the game but rather get stuck in their well known mediocrity. Just take a look at their behavior when it comes down to maps (for more information, read through arnoldio's post above).

Michael_Denmark wrote:I know some people are saying the tournament is not the solution to the decline, however, a tourney still is the only known dynamic in the PR universe, where there are too many aspirations to counter any monotony. The PR tourney is without any doubt the only dynamic so far, having been able to create both serious interest and serious activity on a massive scale in both numbers of players as well as time used. Cause a tourney simply produce players - skilled players to the public servers; players with aspirations.

All that is needed is an even more competent tournament staff than deployed previously. As I see it, that's the real obstacle here; to assemble a truly highly competent tournament staff, being a winner staff, wanting to be a winner staff, consisting only of people with really serious function and team aspirations.

Perhaps using 1 or 2 years to assemble such a staff could do the job? Thus things has to be thought even more thoughtfully through, than the last tourney staff was. and I am talking about details here. Function-area for function-area- Every function should be carefully examined for weak points of monotony and motivational issues.

Also, some prize of some sort, a symbolic amount of money or a real unique PR Trophy (made out of stone perhaps) would be a bonus. Just like real tournaments has trophy's, so should ours.

For money, what about funds? NATO, EU or some UN fond perhaps; a cultural-program or veteran-activities-fund? Has anyone ever tried the fund-approach?

You have what proof that it produces more players & What not? Word of mouth produces more people/people teaching new guys is often what produces more skilled players.

As brain mentioned it was an addition to the mod not the core.

There was only a small pool of people playing in PRT, other communities & such run their own or join war arrangers which is essentially the same thing but between clans.communities.

Small details will only go so far, to actually improve thing's we'd have to refine the small details & go up the chain fixing everything which would take years more than likely. Not only that but a change of mindset to how people currently play, which as you can see is being stone walled.

I've been playing for nearly 7 years, i've never once got into the tourney but i've run a 2-4 man squads that were able to carry/dominate teams. It's not about quantity as much as quality. Unless your russian in which case they like to say "Quantity is a quality in it self."

I'd say the problem is people are too busy fighting each other now like every other community with it's cliques rather than working together. People set up barriers & refuse to atleast try mumble.

SGT.Ice wrote: The map vote system is a terrible system, notice how other games most the time have maplist generators or rotations that are followed rather than just changed when an admin dosen't like the next map. Keeps people happy due to variety, I actually stopped playing like others for a while to due to getting bored of kokan. People like to whine about lack of maps yet they run the same ones almost continuously. I love Fallujah, but I also like militia maps, because they are a bit more of a challenge & require more cooperation between the squads.

Democracy fails due to beuraucracy.

If we play more of the maps that aren't played often the maps everyone loves won't get so old so fast. On average you have 5-8 maps running in rotation out of... 30...?

I agree with this. Even in prime time maps like kashan and mutrah is voted for......... and its the same layer every time aswell...... kashan infantry or kashan vehicle warfare is never selected even though they open up some variation instead of the same old "who can create CAS squad at 1:31 without being caught" syndrome.
The other asset heavy map Burning sands is also being played more or less with the same layer. Setup a random serverlist and let it run til the server dies.... attempts to revive a server by an emergency load of muttrah fail 9-10 times anyway. At best it extends the match that wont be finished by 30 min.
Even asset whores could use a break and go infantry once in a while on the more low tech maps. Personally im an APC whore but if there is already an apc squad or no apc at all ill just fill in a gap somewhere... diversity is what makes the game good... not to live in that glass-jar of safety only doing 1 thing.

Also the maps that where abandon like Ejod Desert and ...cant remember some of the other titles... should be available in a "extra level pack" non of these maps where so bad that they deserved to be terminated...but i guess there is other reasons like stability or no-one to update them to the current version that made them fall out of the system...


Edit: Since the "bluefor" and "opfor" armys sometimes go from blue. to op. it sometimes even make 1 team continue with the same faction unless they swap team ofcourse... but this is really not thought through when that happens imo. atleast place 1 map in between that scrambles the factions every round.

The best server rotation in my opinion would be totally randomized by Faction, layer and gamemode

all factions on both teams played trough avoiding the same team from going with the same factions for 2 rounds in a row. (bluefor/opfor example GB/CH->USMC/MEC->RUS/IDF->USA/CH etc.)

All layers rotating as-well (Standard->infantry->alternative)

The gamemode get more tricky since there is by far most maps in AAS so it could be this...(AAS-AAS-AAS-VW-AAS-AAS-AAS-C&C etc.) I like that insurgency mostly is on separate servers, and since it is a totally different "game", it can stay for itself

Skirmish is not really fit for 62-64 player servers but can be used to jump start a server perhaps.

I don't mind the idea of some system that generated maps that people were stuck with. We got so many variables to choose from instead of just playing the darn game. My attitude is play the map (situation, battlefield) you are confronted with. Same with team switchers. They dont want to be challenge so they avoid it. If it weren't for the players that are willing to deal with difficult circumstances of the game instead of rage quiting, PRBF2 would not have survived until today.

What has happened to the player community in that respect? I think PR has cultivated those kind of attitudes and helped by servers with rules that don't adhere to the intent of the game. The community needs a Jesus moment with respect to WHAT PR is and what PR IS NOT.

About the map voting. The one thing I absolutely ABHOR is text spam in a server. My god man it is the number one reason why I will leave a server when I cant read players sharing intel. And along with the ridiculous server message spam and trash talk by players its enough to ruin a game for me.