Iron Sights?

Post by **Wolfmaster** » 2004-09-05 07:58

I think a crosshair should be included, but only for shooting from the hip.
In real life you can kinda feel where the bullet's gonna go when shooting fron the hip, but not with computer games. So, from the hip yes, zoomed in no.

Post by **Black Beret** » 2004-09-05 08:10

Wolfmaster wrote:I think a crosshair should be included, but only for shooting from the hip.
In real life you can kinda feel where the bullet's gonna go when shooting fron the hip, but not with computer games. So, from the hip yes, zoomed in no.

No. I don't think that's such as a good idea.

If your shooting isn't going to be accurate when firing from the hip and such, what's the point of giving it a HUD reticule/crosshair?

Post by **Wolfmaster** » 2004-09-05 08:19

[R-DEV wrote:Black Beret]
No. I don't think that's such as a good idea.

If your shooting isn't going to be accurate when firing from the hip and such, what's the point of giving it a HUD reticule/crosshair?

True, it won't be accurate, but it does make some difference whether the bullet goes 10 cm besides the target or 10 meters.

marto · Post by **marto** » 2004-09-05 08:21

Then just put a piece of tape on the screen if it matters that much to you. Thats what I did for DoD.

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2004-09-05 09:00

Wolfmaster wrote:In real life you can kinda feel where the bullet's gonna go when shooting fron the hip, but not with computer games

I disagree, I'v played a few games where u can turn off crosshairs, both PC n console, n I reckon once ur used to playin FPS games, ur used to where the crosshairs gonna be anyway, n since it's gonna be as inaccurate as hell to shoot from the hip anyway, wots it matter if ur guess of where the crosshair would be is off by a bit.

PunkRockerDave · Post by **PunkRockerDave** » 2004-09-05 11:07

[R-DEV wrote:Black Beret]I can't say too much due to OPSEC reasons.

Ohhh...I like that line...gonna start using it from now on.

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2004-09-05 15:30

After a few days of playing youll get used to not having crosshairs and like you said will have a feel as to where the bullet is going to land. Thing is in Red Orchestra, if its 2 guys with bolt action rifles in CQB your better off trying to beyonet them or beat them to death with your gun, because of the slow ROF. In a modern game such as this you wont have much of a problem doing CQB without crosshairs because the guns are full auto. 1 last thing, I dont think you should ever actualy shoot from the hip, you guys should make it so that the guy is holding his weapon at his shoulder and when he aims he simply looks down the sights. Maybe incorperate a sprint mode(like in AA) where if you want to go faster you can run but not shoot, hopefully this would be possible.

Post by **BlakeJr** » 2004-09-12 14:13

Crosshairs have been the only way to aim in FPS games since they were first invented, with a few brave exceptions. It's not til recent days that some games have begun to apply real ironsights and even then all you'd have to do was to paste a little piece of paper on the center of your screen to aim with without actually using the ingam aimingmode.
Then along comes a mod for UT (Unreal Tournament) and they change the way aiming is done in games. Link --> http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net/i ... .html#weap

marto · Post by **marto** » 2004-09-12 20:36

Thats pretty cool

Anti-}{ero · Post by **Anti-}{ero** » 2004-09-12 20:44

very cool indeed, that would really tick those sticky moniter guys off

Post by **DrZero** » 2004-09-12 22:32

wow, Alpha_Lima works on infiltration

maybe we will get some insider help

Post by **Alpha_Lima** » 2004-09-13 00:09

Hehe, if anyone has a copy of UT handy go ahead & try INF, it solves the problem of realistic aiming better than any other game I've seen. If you don't have UT, I can quickly describe what's done. Basically INF uses what we call a "free-aim" zone, where you can freely aim your weapon without it changing your view angle. But only up to a certain angle, at which point your view does then follow your aim. So this makes it much harder for people to just draw a dot on their monitors and use it as a crosshair, since the free-aim zone means your actual aim direction can be anywhere within a zone around the center, and not just that central point. Hope that makes sense, it's much easier to understand if you see it. Unfortunately INF is on an old, obsolete engine which looks terrible by today's standards. It would seriously rock if a modern game used this aiming style. Say, something on the BF2 engine.

EDIT: Oh and if you followed that link which Blake provided, down the page a bit, that Road to Kandahar map is one of mine.

Post by **BlakeJr** » 2004-09-13 01:25

It is great that people from Infiltration has "infiltrated" project Realism!

This means more realism and that can only be good!

I have Inf 2.9 installed and ready for play. I get my arse handed to me even by the bots....

Post by **Black Beret** » 2004-09-13 06:13

In this mod, the players will NOT have the option of putting a little marker in the middle of their screen if they do not like using iron sights. This is because when you are not using your sights, although your weapon's butt is still fixed into the shoulder pocket, the player is NOT aiming down his weapon i.e. he would have to rely on a "gut feeling" as to where his shots will strike when he fires. But even so, those shots will not have a high degree of accuracy.

So in conclusion, if the player wants to hit and engage his target, he will HAVE to use his weapons' sights.

INF_Beppo · Post by **INF_Beppo** » 2004-09-13 10:41

I can only second what Alpha_Lima already said. Ironsights and a free aim zone is the only way to get people a feel for their weapon without putting a dot or scotch tape on their monitors center. All those 'no-crosshair' games and mods out there still fire at the center of the screen and then they try to force the players to use the irons by adding heavy conefiring to the hip or shouldered position. Even in Infiltration we use some conefiring at hip cause the engine doesn't let us rotate the gun models as we wanted. Our goal is it to let the weapon model point exactly into the direction it will actually fire. This can be done on the 'newer' engines out there but unfortunately not on good old UT.
This way players get a feel for their gun and need the gun model to actually aim. So turning off the model (as possible in many games/mods) will give you no advantage anymore. In addition you get the feel for it very very fast. All you need to do is actually look at where the barrel is pointing at... just like in RL. So an assault rifle has an advantage over a MP in 'aimability' from a hipped or shouldered position just by the length of the barrel for example.
Well as someone said before... test it out and then take your impressions over into the design of this mod here. Would be cool if these ideas spread thru the different engines.

cheers,

Beppo

Post by **DrZero** » 2004-09-13 10:59

cheers beppo

Post by **Alpha_Lima** » 2004-09-13 12:58

Hey great to see ya here Beppo! Anyone really familiar w/ INF knows he's the brains behind the mod that turned the clunky UT engine into a compelling and realistic tactical combat game, and inspired me to get into mapping in the first place.

INF_Beppo · Post by **INF_Beppo** » 2004-09-13 20:01

thanks guys

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2004-09-13 20:10

This "free aim" is possible to integrate in bf but its a big script and so it can produce lag but i think that it wont really be a problem with the bf2 engine.

Post by **DrZero** » 2004-09-13 22:13

nice work archie, well tested

Iron Sights?

Crosshair

Re: Crosshair

Re: Crosshair

Re: Crosshair

Crosshairs are for sissies