Project Reality Forums

Calhoun wrote:2) "Don't like it? Don't play there" is a perfectly valid argument.

How is that a valid argument? If this is how they're going to behave, it shows nothing but how uninterested they are in listening to the people having problems with their server!
People having issues now, and those who will have issues later won't bother playing on their server anymore, as they know the admins won't say nothing but "Fuck it. We don't care what you think. It's our server".

I don't think this is how the Hardcore-clan want's it, and therefore they need to change their attitude from "Don't like it? Don't play there" to "Please tell me your issues with our server, so we can help you finding it attractive again".

Mace, I will actually bother reading what you wrote if you replace the red color with black. I'd also appreciate it if you can change from align center to align left.

Ouch that hurts my eyes. Admins, I do not see the point of this thread at all. Can burst easily in something we dont want.

MaSSive wrote:Can burst easily in something we dont want.

Let's try to avoid that. For once I'm interested in discussing properly with the Hardcore-clan.

MaSSive wrote:Admins, I do not see the point of this thread at all.

To voice our opinions about the Hardcore server. We can't do it anywhere else. Something has to be done.

PricelineNegotiator wrote:We can't do it anywhere else.

Forums / PROJECT REALITY / Server Feedback Thread - HARDCORE GAMING CLAN

All right then, I have nothing much to say then. Ive played few times not so long ago on this server and I did not like it. Reason? Its been mentioned here. Team stack, allowed baserape, ignorant representatives. I registered on their forum and pointed on a problem, but got infamous answer - dont like it? dont play here. So I didn't. Large player base has nothing to do with popularity. Most of good PR clans with older players, will not play there, most of their players are new and inexperienced. Gaining experience in this kind of environment is bad for future player base of this mod. I short that will be it.
Things to change?
As we techs like to say - shut it down, and reinstall it. Start from beginning, revise the rules, discharge all admins, elect new ones - ones mature enough to handle it.
Thing is, you shouldn't let yourself come to this point. I hope you will manage to get out of all this.

Actually I have to stick with the "dont play there if you dont like it" argument. While it is beyond me, why anybody would play a game like Project reality or ARMA2 PR (or ARMA PR), if they just want to roam and do whatever they want when there are games out better suited for that (BF3 countless others) is beyond me. Then again there are people who buy cars based on how fast they go around the N?rburgring although they have no intention to learn how to race a car.

Some people like not having to play team oriented when playing PR, just want to snipe, just want to do their thing and join a squad just to get kits. Some servers seem to be the place to go for that. I am aware there have been other problems with the server staff from what I read, which I cant really comment on, since I dont play on their servers, but yeah, if you dont like it dont play there. I dont and I dont.

If =H= has as many members as one poster mentioned then why would there ever be an issue with balancing teams? If you guys were a smaller tightly knit clan with 5-8 players on the server at any given time having everyone on one team would not affect the outcome as much as say 12-20 players getting teamswitched by admins so they can be with the rest of the clan. Not only is this at odds with any fair play policies you may/may not have, but it is bordering on abuse of admin powers. If 6-7 =H= guys load up on the wrong team and get switched this leaves a massive gap not only number-wise but also skill-wise as generally the people who will get teamswitched are those who have died (given up waiting for a medic) which is often a sign of poor teamwork/skills.

Another huge issue is the length of INS rounds on your server. Now I have been in squads chasing unknowns and have had a lot of success thanks to noobs who MUST HAVE THAT KIT U CANT SPAWN WITH. That being said every single INS round on hardcore is rather one sided to Blufor and there are a few main reasons for that. First and foremost is the fact that Hardcore members will stack blufor almost every time, once again leaving random (more often then not noob) players to be switched over to Insurgents. Top this with the fact that INS rounds play out with mostly unknowns going down, and are normally less then an hour, and you begin to see why so many players have "feedback" for you guys. To most players this is a clear sign of ghosting, while a lot of experienced players realize it's not case closed at all. The game mode is not perfect, but the way insurgency rounds go on your server is rather pathetic so everyone has been calling you guys out on it for a while now, sadly no obvious changes have been made.

And last but certainly not least is the lack of team cohesion, I believe is partly due to you guys wanting to keep pushing your vent server on the pubbies. It does promote teamwork, and it is really good that the clan has extended an open invitation to anyone/everyone and you guys do it as often as you can. Unfortunately not everyone has ventrillo, and there is no real reason to download it when mumble is provided. Keep vent for your clan, much like OD-S does with TS, and invite your friends to join but don't expect a random pubby to go out of his way to meet you guys on vent. You must meet us half way, and as annoying as it is getting to read this, mumble is the half way point. What ends up happening is the public players are in the dark running their squads as if they are the only one on the server, checking the map often results in "WTF IS Squad X doing WAY over there far away from the obectives?". There is a reason server enforce mumble, next time you're on one of those servers take note of the difference in team cohesion. I'm not saying you guys should enforce mumble, but it's a powerful tool that needs to be taken advantage of because everyone who installed PR has it.

You guys have one of the most active servers, and the admin team may not be the best ever but they do their job fairly well and I have yet to see anyone as abusive and downright stupid as one particular NWA admin (come at me bro!). I am also pleased to see that you guys have decided to act when the banning incident was brought to the public forums, instead of sitting on your hands and feeling sorry for the abusive admin.

Do everyone a favor and take your collective head out of the sand and observe the rest of the community, valid points have been brought up time and time again but change isn't easy and no one will do it for you.

As a nonsupporting TG regular, I'd like to say kicking for reserved slots is completely reasonable and fair.

This isn't about TG, but it's a unique way to give back to people who support them. It only takes a few seconds to rejoin anyway


Back on topic, cleaning out the hardcore server's feedback thread on the PR forums, then starting it anew would be better.


Instead of thinking negative feedback is a personal attack on hardcore, they should accept it for what it is, constructive criticism. If someone's been wrongfully banned or had a bad experience on the server, posting in the clan's forums makes the thread get shot down in a heartbeat, due to the host clan -always- being right. The Project Reality forums used to be a place where you can talk about wrongful doings, but mods delete because you speak about a ban. Appealing the ban, yes do it on their forums. But talking about a wrongful ban and having it locked or deleted takes away the point of a feedback thread.

To tell the truth, I only join this server when TG or others are empty or low population. The teams are usually blatantly stacked to the point that its a whole clan vs pub and its understandable that you want to play with the clan, but then it just becomes boring and a steam role because there is no real challenge. Some of the H guys are just insincere when they TK, not all, but a lot are very arrogant. Administration is def not the best. It is a great server in terms of access and population, but that's just it. Also, I remember having a round a couple of days ago playing against the stacked H team on ins mode, and our unknown caches were mysteriously disappearing without people even spawning on them, in remote areas. Not saying anything, but just saying. ;D

saXoni wrote:Every server but you have one.

That's not true. But if COEMAN would like the feedback thread re-opened he can certainly request it.



Anyhows

I started to moderate this thread (lots of deleted posts are quoted etc. etc.) but tbh it seemed like too much effort. I'd suggest that you'll have much greater success effecting change by engaging in intelligent constructive dialogue about what changes you would like in the future - rather than rehashing old arguments. my 2c.

The TG kicking is different. On TG, you receive benefits from donating, such as being able to (usually) get a spot on the server. There are no problems with this, because you can still play if you don't donate. The recent indecent on H seemed to be a form of bribery, telling a player that they will be unbanned if they donate. Players are banned for reasons, and trying to extort money from this is wrong.

i started regular play with tg, maybe 2006. the ruleset didn't fit my preference, so i set out on chc, where i still play and can fairly refer to as my home in pr.

it does come down to preference. fighting the stack can, at times, be aggravating as hell. it's not because of the opponents we're facing, but in my opinion, has much more to do with the lack of cohesion on the opposite end. my k :d doesn't vary by whichever side i'm on. it's actually a lot easier to pile corpses when the winning team is playing brazenly. they take unnecessary risks, exposing themselves in ways that are easy to take advantage of.

i know all the cache spawns. i know who's out there hunting them. some games are over as they begin, but the quality of the regs on chc is at the top of the list, so far as i'm concerned.

the admins enforce the rules. the server ruleset is one of very few that leans toward open play and allows for a large degree of freedom.

i don't know how many times i've seen the "ghosting" accusation roam into all chat. it's a joke, at this point (thousands?). if anyone comes to hc to ghost, it's an outsider. maybe it's occurred in the past, but believe me when i say that there's no necessity to 'ghost.'

it's a (flaw or feature of pr, depending on your pov) that caches are predictable. slip up and expose your unknown prematurely, and the cache is gone in double quicktime... but anyone who assumes that an unannounced unknown kill is the work of unfair play at the hands of hc members is wrong, and that's simply how it is. sorry if you disagree.

litoralis already pointed out a few these points, and i mostly agree with his conclusion. i also like litoralis as a player, and understand that he knows what he's talking about. the largest obstacle facing the server, at this point, is the cyclical playerbase. new kids enter, get chewed up, and walk the hell out.

the server does stay full, but it would benefit everyone if the REGULARS (not just members, but certainly members included) broke up into more even sides. i don't even care, honestly. it's the most competitive server. again, sorry if you disagree, but that's simply how it is.

I 100% agree with notmyingamename. The issues occuring on =]H[= are entirely gameplay flaws, and to me, they don't matter at all. When I first started playing PR on =]H[=, it was the same way it was now. The gameplay was competitive, the community was great. At no point did i rage quit, complain, or even look on the team menu and notice any form of stacking.

The majority of you are talking about the teamstacking issue on Hardcore, more of a gameplay issue than anything else.
On the =]H[= forums, there is a feedback section. About the only thing I see in this section is that of map rotation changes. Rarely, a thread concerning teamstacking will come up, and this is always treated the same. Admins do what they can to ensure fairness on both sides.

Teamstacking does not even necessarily mean all the present =]H[= members on one side. A good player of PR does not need a =]H[= tag, and i find that most don't. Individual clans that frequent our server can often lead to imbalance, but the admins aren't going to split them up: why would you want to play PR specifically with your clanmates if you can't even be on the same team? And the claims of "40 minute rounds" are a rarity, but when they occur, it is because of TEAMWORK/SKILLED players. As I recall, this is the playerbase =]H[= advertises in their server name. All types of players are welcome, but if a player uses teamwork and is skilled (or develops skill), they will find themselves caught up in the entertaining, competitive atmosphere of =]H[=. I honestly see no resolve to the semi-existant teamstacking problem, because it is a gameplay flaw that is inherent to every game of this kind.
As Coeman mentioned the server is the most populous in PR, full at peak times every day. Obviously, they are doing something right.

May i also point out, that this entire issue stemmed from an incredibly obvious troll, who went from ingame, to the hardcore forums, and finally to here.

No doubt Hardcore is a good server to play in. But a fancy letter doesn't erase wrong doing. Let Gaz speak

MaSSive wrote:Gaining experience in this kind of environment is bad for future player base of this mod. I short that will be it.

This.

PricelineNegotiator wrote:I am for removal of the Hardcore server

Please - no. Then the players would flood the decent servers and gameplay quality would go down the drain there too.

I've been playing PR since v0.85 and am a frequent player on the Hardcore server. I'm sure the majority of the =]H[= players would remember me. To be honest I am torn between the two sides of this argument.

On the one hand the server, as a whole, is usually populated with recurring incidences of reluctant admins and blatant disregard for other players. (At least I see this a great deal). Problems stemming from the over-reactions of admins towards normal pubbers is generally on a higher percent rate then towards members of the clan. For example, when squad bugs happen and people go around TKing people. Many a time, I have seen admins using the !shout command and telling people that the next person to TK will be kicked and sure enough, a few people are always kicked and/or banned. But if someone is to watch the kill scroller, they would surely notice that when a =]H[= member TK's after said warning, nothing is done. At least VERY rarely and usually any allegations brought up by normal team members are treated as an infraction and a warning is given to them. Overall I find the administration to be HIGHLY biased towards people in the clan. As of now I have been to afraid to speak up against what I am seeing, because the Hardcore server is one of the few I have relatively good PING on.

Which leads me to fact 2: Finding that administration and general members of Hardcore play with the mentality of "WE HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY WIN OR I'M GONNA DIE" annoys me greatly. Another thing I find is the obvious usage of FEAR as a tactic in which to control, what I would consider criticism about problems, unrest on the server. Big no no.


As I mentioned before I am torn and on the other hand, I have had many a fun games with the people of the Hardcore clan and many of them are great people.

The only problem is that the majority of people on the server hide under their online alias and lack the repercussions of their actions. I, in the past, have been an Admin for servers before and from my point of view something needs to be done about the way the administration service works. I see WAY to many people being punished on the server.

Lastly to address the teachings of the members of the clan to new players of the game, I find it more of an indoctrination then a general teaching.

I was banned from this server for "taking too long to attack".

I was working with a three SQ platoon on insurgency.

I will not rejoin this server.