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I seriously doubt anymore AA is necessary, the strela is a piece of shit (im told, I always surmised it had the exact same coding attached to it as the stinger for balance purpose), and due to indestructible building cover, and short draw distances its sufficient to keep your average cobra pilot at bay, and a good limited to quick diving maneuvers.

Muttrah is probably the only pure Urban Combat map available others have large open deserts (ramiel) or seem unfinished (beirut)

40mmrain wrote:I seriously doubt anymore AA is necessary, the strela is a piece of shit (im told, I always surmised it had the exact same coding attached to it as the stinger for balance purpose), and due to indestructible building cover, and short draw distances its sufficient to keep your average cobra pilot at bay, and a good limited to quick diving maneuvers.

Yeah, the AA is useful against the cobra, totally pointless against Huey's. They can take a hit and fly home, meaning they are basically invulnerable.

They also have enough flares to spam them all the way from/back to the ship, doesn't help.

If you have interlocking AA positions built (I.e. on Hotel roof and another roof within a few hundred metres) you can sometimes surprise them, but because of the way damage is modelled for the Hueys you won't be able to shoot them down. Then the cobra will hit your AA from just out of view distance

Using AA on Muttrah just takes players away from actually fighting.

Mikemonster wrote:Yeah, the AA is useful against the cobra, totally pointless against Huey's. They can take a hit and fly home, meaning they are basically invulnerable.

They also have enough flares to spam them all the way from/back to the ship, doesn't help.

If you have interlocking AA positions built (I.e. on Hotel roof and another roof within a few hundred metres) you can sometimes surprise them, but because of the way damage is modelled for the Hueys you won't be able to shoot them down. Then the cobra will hit your AA from just out of view distance

Using AA on Muttrah just takes players away from actually fighting.

Is the Huey problem going to get fixed I mean it's impossible to take one down

There's a thread on it somewhere.

The problem is that it takes damage from terrain, so to prevent it blowing up on landing it has to have a high HP.

Trans helos in PR are given a high amount of HP anyway to encourage people to use them aggressively, and because they usually carry 6 troops (not fair to allow them to die in one shot).

Those are my understandings. Have a look in the Huey feedback thread if you want better info

huey is countered by the 30mm, that thing rips it to shreds.

The problem with the Hueys is is that the heat source is lower than the actual hitbox itself, meaning that any AA that 'hits' will explode underneath the chopper (instead of 'ramming' it) causing only limited damage.

Even if you give the MEC 20 BMPs it doesn't matter, it's too easy for the Cobra to kill any armor on the map no matter how much AA there is.

'Xander[nl wrote:;1831382']The problem with the Hueys is is that the heat source is lower than the actual hitbox itself, meaning that any AA that 'hits' will explode underneath the chopper (instead of 'ramming' it) causing only limited damage.

No the problem is the Huey, like all transport choppers right now have a massive amount of HP so they are pretty much indestructible....

Stealthgato wrote:Even if you give the MEC 20 BMPs it doesn't matter, it's too easy for the Cobra to kill any armor on the map no matter how much AA there is.

Due to short draw distances, the cobra must get in quite close, well within strela and igla range to make an attack on armour, should the MEC have one built AA, and their two strelas out, a dive on west city center is a very dangerous maneuver. Further still as with the nature of the city overhead cover exists. I think its rare for the cobra to dominate muttrah, a combination of incompetent MEC and skilled pilots has to happen.

Yes armour would have to be very conservative until the cobra is down, but a mec team that utilizes their AA is definitely enough to deter a cobra from making confident runs on MTLBs that move quickly through the city, hitting and running, and being too fast to be lazed, then ducking under T buildings.

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:No the problem is the Huey, like all transport choppers right now have a massive amount of HP so they are pretty much indestructible....

except the huey gets rocket pods, lol.

Dont actual hueys with rocket pods sport miniguns, M2s, troop transporting, or supply transporting ability? Drop its health down a reasonable amount so it, so it isnt "flying tank", but up its flare count, and utility so its still useful and agressive. Dont really want to turn it into a bigger kiowa. Also, interestingly, the zero for the rockets is lower than the crosshair on the HUD of the huey, rocket accuracy could be traded for health points, I think.

Other then them and a clan scrim or two I have never seen any US team take full advantage of their deployment, NEVER. In reality this map is actually quite unbalanced safe for the fact that public players don't understand it well enough to end the round in 10-20 minutes.

Sorry, do you mean Flag rushing? If yes, then thats just exploiting the map.


Btw, public players do understand this and are held back by admins to allow BOTH sides to enjoy themselves.

The Hueys being present allow the USMC to camp the hills as well, don't forget. Jack-in-a-box HAT's and snipers get to camp all round (in plain view of the MEC team most times because of the rendering problems at distance). Really annoying to have two guys be invulnerable all round yet able to HAT a FOB or the 30mm MTLB at a moment's notice.

If some distructable statics or a trench system could be placed on the hills it could be incorporated into the gameplay I suppose. With hills like that which defending army isn't going to fortify them?

Tit4Tat wrote:Sorry, do you mean Flag rushing? If yes, then thats just exploiting the map..

"Flag rushing" is the default way of playing the game. "Exploiting the map" is the default way of playing the game. Its a game: s/he who exploits the resources available to them in the most effective and efficient manner shall triumph; that's the god damn point.

On Muttrah, the resource the USMC needs to exploit to their advantage on deployment is their maneuverability. I suspect the US could chopper rush South City every public game with some kind of success (before people caught on). Also ECC or WCC. All things being equal however, this is actually very easy for the MEC to shut down with HAT kits on Fortress and one on the D11 T buildings.

All things being equal, the furthest the US can hope to drop on deployment is WCC, and even then the MEC can be there at the same time so its a risky prospect.

I have played several clan wars on muttrah and i remember one round as mec, when i jumped in the fortress quadcannon at the beginning and downed 2 full trans hueys and the cas huey trying to rush south city (13-0 after 2 mins for me ).

The real US strength on muttrah (next to the way better logistic thanks to hueys and stuff like west city t-building rush) is the combination of CAS, mortars and the UAV (or a good spotter). If an usmc commander got a good mortar/cas crew and you maybe got a small ambush team behind the enemy lines, disturbing the mec mortars, the mec team has no chance to win this map at all. No fobs, no apcs, no 10 meters their infantry can move on open terrain. Unless the usmc inf does a totally horrible job.

So yeah, muttrah can be very unbalanced but in 80% of all public rounds, you won't notice it.

Saying Muttrah can be unbalanced because one team is better than the other or one team has a better strategy, or both, is like saying the hunting plain is unbalanced because the Lion killed the Wildebeest...

To win on Muttrah or any map for that matter is to exploit the weaknesses of the enemy and win over. Problem is that in most public games because everyone knows Muttrah so well and its very rear to see any public commanders bring the team under a good strategy and since typically most public games do have more or less balanced teams that the map dose turn into a stalemate since no team can group together behind a strategy other than the normal "lets rush the first flag" and it turns into a stalemate because its balanced....

There are many ways for both sides to win Muttrah, you just got to add some team strategy into the mix.

"Flag rushing" is the default way of playing the game. "Exploiting the map" is the default way of playing the game. Its a game: s/he who exploits the resources available to them in the most effective and efficient manner shall triumph; that's the god damn point.

This would be true if the DEV's didn't create sequence flag capping. So until that happens its an unorthodox way of playing the game.



IMO, people have this idea that rushing flags and catching the enemy on the back foot is a sound, heroic tactic, and praise themselves on this. Going toe to toe with the enemy is much more heroic, and a rewarding feeling you get if you beat them....but thats just my way of looking on things.

Might want to edit that out Smurf, never hurts

what have i missed?

40mmrain wrote:Due to short draw distances, the cobra must get in quite close, well within strela and igla range to make an attack on armour, should the MEC have one built AA, and their two strelas out, a dive on west city center is a very dangerous maneuver. Further still as with the nature of the city overhead cover exists. I think its rare for the cobra to dominate muttrah, a combination of incompetent MEC and skilled pilots has to happen.

Yes armour would have to be very conservative until the cobra is down, but a mec team that utilizes their AA is definitely enough to deter a cobra from making confident runs on MTLBs that move quickly through the city, hitting and running, and being too fast to be lazed, then ducking under T buildings.

Doesn't matter how much AA there is. A vertical dive with half-decent gunner which takes out all armor fast and AA will never do anything to the Cobra. Also, hiding armor under buildings doesn't work, 2 Hellfires next to the entrance and whatever was there is dead.

Tit4Tat wrote:This would be true if the DEV's didn't create sequence flag capping. So until that happens its an unorthodox way of playing the game.

The devs also "created" a system where its possible to block a neutral flag out of the cap order, thereby making a "rush" a viable tactic. To says its unorthodox is to arbitrarily limit yourself as a player, when it is in fact possible and permissible by the most basic rules of the game.

It also seems self evident to me that something unorthodox, abnormal or unusual is not intrinsically bad, or somehow lesser than other ways of playing. What starts out as an unorthodox play, by its very efficacy, can often become a regular or standard way of playing the game.

Here is an interesting article bout this very subject: How underdogs can win : The New Yorker