Project Reality Forums

Henrique_Dalben wrote:There were countless reports of insurgents using US issued gear during fallujah, and that inclued: Plate carriers, SAWs, 240's, helmets, the whole uniform(You do know they don't give a flying f**k about Geneva or Hague, right?), AT-4s and, of course, the m16/m4. Using an AT-4 or a SRAW isn't all that difficult, and the "getting the enemy geometry kit" happened IRL, no excuse to not allow at least the insurgent factions to use enemy kits.

Insurgents Posed as U.S. Troops to Strike at Afghan Air Base | Danger Room | Wired.com

I guess you were efficient in using them right from the get go, with no previous training? Damn... I guess you were born being an ace with all the military hardware available today.

Keep it as it is or people will even behave even more stupid with their kits , everything can be found on google and insurgents also have internet. Just restrict some kits to prevent stupid situations. Except for one thing: Allow convectional forces to use each others medic kits (Geneve convention!).

Henrique_Dalben wrote:There were countless reports of insurgents using US issued gear during fallujah, and that inclued: Plate carriers, SAWs, 240's, helmets, the whole uniform(You do know they don't give a flying f**k about Geneva or Hague, right?), AT-4s and, of course, the m16/m4. Using an AT-4 or a SRAW isn't all that difficult, and the "getting the enemy geometry kit" happened IRL, no excuse to not allow at least the insurgent factions to use enemy kits.

Insurgents Posed as U.S. Troops to Strike at Afghan Air Base | Danger Room | Wired.com

Well, the attack against Bastion was some kind of Spec Ops made by the Taliban, and they've done more, but please, give me an example of those being used in a regular combat, besides Fallujah.

As told by Spec, we have this, not for RL, although is one of the reasons, but also, if we have 2 Anti-Tanks and the enemy take one of them, my team will have only 1, and, (in case of conventional warfare) the enemy team will have 3, also they can rearm it from their supply crates, which won't happen IRL.

Main issue is squads getting really l33t outfitting with six SAWs or whatever, which is kinda cool up until the point you realize it doesn't make for great gameplay.

B.Pronk(NL) wrote:everything can be found on google and insurgents also have internet.

Please provide links to backup your claims.

Murphy wrote:Please provide links to backup your claims.

Which part? That you can find everything on the internet or that insurgents (Iraqi / Afghan people) are able to access the internet?

Look what you can buy on ebay;

http://www.ebay.in/itm/100-Reloading-10 ... 0810380489

http://www.ebay.in/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 745wt_1139

Look , the internet is very big and a lot of things can be found on the internet. And don't forget that terrorist organisations have more resources than you think. Not that every insurgent knows how to use a SRAW anti tank launcher or knows how to detonate C4 (well most of them know it looking at how good they can make their IEDs).

Just don't think they are all retarded , some of them are , but a lot of them aren't.

I my opinion the discussion goes the wrong way and is useless,..
Now it goes on about what is realistic and who is trained in what.
It's a game!!!! Yes of course try to get it as close to realistic as possible,...but it still has to be playable.
That's a useless discussion, because how many times in RL you see a enemy with your kit and gear???? Well,....????
Anyway,....as already explained by the DEV,...it's not possible because of the kit limitations.
It's a game it will stay a game and therefore it is good for the gameplay.

That's my opinion about it.

Well, you just resumed what have been told before that guy came up and brought the discussion up again.

SShadowFox wrote:Well, the attack against Bastion was some kind of Spec Ops made by the Taliban, and they've done more, but please, give me an example of those being used in a regular combat, besides Fallujah.

As told by Spec, we have this, not for RL, although is one of the reasons, but also, if we have 2 Anti-Tanks and the enemy take one of them, my team will have only 1, and, (in case of conventional warfare) the enemy team will have 3, also they can rearm it from their supply crates, which won't happen IRL.

"Give me a place where they did this, besides the place where they did it." Are you dense? Also, the AT scenario wouldn't happen because only insurgents would be able to use enemy kits, and you don't need HAT kits on insurgency that bad.

Noddy - user given warning (first offence) for flaming.

Imo the biggest problem is that your own team wont be able to use the kit that is in enemies hands.

Also it looks damn awful when you see an insurgent running around with a helmet and the backback from an american. If it would be possible to only pick up the weapon it would be a big step ahead (hardcoded or not even possible)

Henrique_Dalben wrote:"Give me a place where they did this, besides the place where they did it." Are you dense?

Don't act like a smart-***, you know what I meant, besides Fallujah, where else you've heard or seen Insurgents using US gear? Got it now?

SShadowFox wrote:Don't act like a smart-***, you know what I meant, besides Fallujah, where else you've heard or seen Insurgents using US gear? Got it now?

If they did this in fallujah, it means they are able to do it. But as it seems you're as bright as the smartest termite, here it goes.

Taliban Averts Attacks With U.S. Equipment - Investigative Round-Up - CBS News
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/11/10-4
http://kitup.military.com/2011/01/wtf-t ... -m240.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/world ... .html?_r=0
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09 ... -s-troops/

And, if you're not yet satisfied, look up some apache guncam videos as i've seen at least 2 insurgents with 240's.

Please, go back a few pages and see what have been discussed before you appeared over here bringing the discussion up again, even thou it was done.

Also make sure you go back to page 1 and see what have been posted by [R-MOD]Spec. Please someone close this thread before the things go deeper and harder.

This discussion is useless and nothing that you post here will change the minds of the Devs.

I did read what has been posted by him.

- You would IRL not be able to re-use the weapon you picked up after emptying it. In game, your own ammo sources can reload enemy weapons, which is very unrealistic. A taliban could steal not only an AT4, but he'd have unlimited AT4s as long as he isn't killed or cut off from ammo reserves.

False, as the taliban use ammunition stolen from the ANA. Guess who armed the ANA? Taliban should be using RPG-29s and MILAN, be thankful all they will get is a lousy AT-4.

- Taking away a kit in PR means that the faction whom it belonged to originally won't be able to spawn another of those kits due to kit restriction mechanics. It is intended that only 2 heavy ATs are available per team, it is not intended that one team gets 3 and the other 1, because one was stolen. IRL, the army whom it was stolen from would just get a replacement, in-game they'll never see that thing again until they found and killed the guy(s) who stole/carry it.

Valid point, but as only insurgents would be using enemy kits the AT issue wouldn't be a problem, and it would make people very careful when going into battle knowing that if they lose that HAT they just made their APCs useless.

- It's very easy to use most weapons in PR. Even AT weapons are usually not hard to use at all, since they are designed to be used by a soldier in combat who might not have had much time to train with it, since the specialist could die and another man would have to take over, and not all soldiers can be experts at all weapon platforms. Shooting an AT4 isn't rocket science (no pun intended). However, proper maintenance, achieving good accuracy, dealing with problems caused by bad maintenance, and any other long-term operation and the quality of short-term operation depend on the knowledge of the user, and that knowledge would not always be a given.

Maintenance wouldn't be a problem as no one cleans their gun in the middle of combat and you don't spend 3 months sitting at a FOB doing nothing in PR. Accuracy? Are you serious? With current deviation even the most skilled soldier can't hit anything if he isn't laying prone and aiming at his target for at least 10 seconds, IF he is lucky. Clearing a Jam in any weapons is far from being a nightmare, and PR doesn't have a jam mechanic in place, so this will never be a problem.

But, as said by SShadowFox

This discussion is useless and nothing that you post here will change the minds of the Devs.

And i know it won't, because they never did and never will accept any suggestion, it's too much work...

Henrique you are correct, but this is one of those cases where PR has to be unrealistic in order for it to be more realistic(ish) in representing a realtime battlefield, and in order to allow fairer gameplay for both sides.

I.e. If PR represented everything literally it would be a very silly game to play (unfortunately, or fortunately, depending how you look at it).

The problem is that it's impossible to create something that is 'realistic' for everyone, especially as people aren't willing to admit why changes are made (they use a realism argument for a gameplay addition for instance).

Who here can to operate and fire an Eryx?

Who here can accurately shoot an QBZ-95 at range?

Who thinks a soldier wouldnt get reprimanded for ditching his weapon in the field because he felt like it?

Who thinks the US army infantry carry a **** load of .303 Mk VII SAA Ball ammunition, just incase they want to reload a Taliban Lee Enfield they find?

/thread


...mongol...

[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude wrote:/thread

Was it supposed to close the thread?

It's fine to leave that one open though.

I was immensely disappointed when this feature was implemented initially. As an Insurgent I thoroughly enjoyed looting the bodies of my prey to see what treasures I might have procured; the fabled Blufor Marksman kit being most prized. This was slightly more urgent when insurgents lacked field dressings in their kits, i'll grant.

However, I can also recall a match on Operation Archer, in which my entire Taliban squad, excepting our medic, was outfitted with scoped ARs. We sat on a hilltop near the cache, and laid waste to any and all advancing infantry, while two stolen HATs assured the LAVs were no threat. Later in that round, I also wielded a SRAW, sniping infantry from a castle cache. Fun though it may have been, I cannot dispute the broken-ness of that experience.

One exception that seems a little silly however, is in the case of Milita VS. Russia. Same firearms, (excepting the M60/SV98/PPsH of course) same ammunition, likely the same level of training. Hell, they could likely crew each other's armor, but we have BF3 for that, I suppose.

By the latest estimate, according to wikipedia, the taliban's strength is close to 36,000 fighters. On average, a Taliban team will die about 150 times per round, thus simulating 150-180 total taliban fighters participating in each battle. IT would be reasonable to assume, based on the fact that there are just about zero reports posted on enemies commandeering and using SRAWs, and AT-4s, that ~100 have ever been stolen and used. Thus, there should be 1 enemy AT kit for ever 360 taliban soliders. So, every round a coin ought to be tossed. If it lands in favour of the taliban, they are allowed to pick up one enemy AT kit the entire round.

This is a very precise, and fair algorithm.

Keep in mind that if some smurf grabs an american LAT off the ground then gets shot and loses it 10 seconds later, thats it for the entire round.

I think this viewpoint is unbias, and should satisfy everyone