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'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino;1856939']No offence to Kaland intended but going by his work on the FM FAL scope, he isn't ready yet to make an entire handheld weapon series.

Also wouldn't refer to the Brazilian Armed Forces as "BAF", as that's also commonly known as the "British Armed Forces", mainly thanks to BI, as well as many other military forces too: BAF - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can refer to it by the original shortening in Portuguese - EB - Ex?rcito Brasileiro (It is the land forces) to avoid misunderstandings.

You guys could make both guns - The IMBEL M964 (FN FAL) and the IMBEL IA-2. Officers could use the the IA-2 and, the ordinary soldiers, could use the M964.

For the very beginning, I suggest you guys to focus only in insurgency game mode. This, for now, will take out the A-29 which means less work to be done.

Also, will the crew kit use Para-FALs? I am not sure what they use IRL, but I got a good gun for the drill: the Taurus M972 SMG (Beretta M12). We got a shitload of them in our land forces (mostly used for the police brand of EB), never saw the armor crews using it (to be honest, I have never seen any crew holding any kind of small arms right here) but would be perfect for the class in PR. Not really realistic, but fits perfectly.

The gun itself:


Random EB guy using it:


Police brand from EB using it:


Just an idea.

And the sniper rifle was the IMBEL AGLC at the old plans, was not it? Because it is really what they use out there. IMBEL AGLC with the Bushnell Elite 3200 scope.

The rifle:


EB sniper using the IMBEL AGLC:

SShadowFox wrote:BTW Rhino, could you PM me with specific details of what should be fixed on the FAL?

It isn't a case of fixing the current FN FAL series, its a case of totally replacing it with a new series of models from scratch as the errors on the currently model are not simple fixes and we are far better off just replacing it with a new, more accurate and detailed model.

As for all the versions from the series that are needed, I don't currently have a list, but we should probably work on making one.

For PR:F we need:

• L1A1 SLR
• L1A1 SLR with SUIT 4x Scope
• FM FAL
• FM FAL with Carl Zeiss Nedinsco 4x31 Scope
• FM FAP

Will need to talk to the MAs to see what other variations we may need but if you can grab a list of the ones you need for the Brazilian Armed Forces that would be good

Death! wrote:You can refer to it by the original shortening in Portuguese - EB - Ex?rcito Brasileiro (It is the land forces) to avoid misunderstandings.

You guys could make both guns - The IMBEL M964 (FN FAL) and the IMBEL IA-2. Officers could use the the IA-2 and, the ordinary soldiers, could use the M964.

For the very beginning, I suggest you guys to focus only in insurgency game mode. This, for now, will take out the A-29 which means less work to be done.

Also, will the crew kit use Para-FALs? I am not sure what they use IRL, but I got a good gun for the drill: the Taurus M972 SMG (Beretta M12). We got a shitload of them in our land forces (mostly used for the police brand of EB), never saw the armor crews using it (to be honest, I have never seen any crew holding any kind of small arms right here) but would be perfect for the class in PR. Not really realistic, but fits perfectly.

The gun itself:
-pic-

Random EB guy using it:
-pic-

Police brand from EB using it:
-pic-

Just an idea.

And the sniper rifle was the IMBEL AGLC at the old plans, was not it? Because it is really what they use out there. IMBEL AGLC with the Bushnell Elite 3200 scope.

The rifle:
-pic-

EB sniper using the IMBEL AGLC:
-pic-

We are another team working on it, the previous team went MIA, we only had contact with FPaiva, he's in the border with Colombia as army sergeant, we asked him to share the models he had done before, but he went MIA, but before that he told that most of the models and such were with Salmonella.

All we gonna use is displayed on the Design Plan, check it out.

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino;1898784']It isn't a case of fixing the current FN FAL series, its a case of totally replacing it with a new series of models from scratch as the errors on the currently model are not simple fixes and we are far better off just replacing it with a new, more accurate and detailed model.

As for all the versions from the series that are needed, I don't currently have a list, but we should probably work on making one.

For PR:F we need:

• L1A1 SLR
• L1A1 SLR with SUIT 4x Scope
• FM FAL
• FM FAL with Carl Zeiss Nedinsco 4x31 Scope
• FM FAP

Will need to talk to the MAs to see what other variations we may need but if you can grab a list of the ones you need for the Brazilian Armed Forces that would be good

That's a problem, however, I can tell the guy that is doing the IA-2 to hold and do the FAL.

However, he would need to make every single model? I mean, the L1A1, the FM FAL and the FN FAL, or he could make the FN FAL and then "convert" to the L1A1 and the FM FAL?

SShadowFox wrote:That's a problem, however, I can tell the guy that is doing the IA-2 to hold and do the FAL.

The current model is fine as a place holder, it just ideally needs replacing in the long run.

SShadowFox wrote:However, he would need to make every single model? I mean, the L1A1, the FM FAL and the FN FAL, or he could make the FN FAL and then "convert" to the L1A1 and the FM FAL?

Like with the SA80 and AR15 series, every interchangeable part pretty much needs to be modelled or tweaked for each version. So things like every type of butt stock, every type of fore grip, every type of scope etc, then its just a matter of putting them all together to make the different weapon variations.
Its first a matter of working out each and every FN FAL variation we need and might possibly need in the future too, then working out all the different components from each then getting someone with experience (as its no point replacing a model with significant errors and low detail with another with significant errors and low detail because the guy making them didn't have much experience) to model them.

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:as its no point replacing a model with significant errors and low detail with another with significant errors and low detail because the guy making them didn't have much experience

Well, the guy that is doing the IA-2 have done this.

Some new pictures:









p3d: http://p3d.in/Ze6HH

I already spotted the Z-Fighting.

Uhh...Sorry to burst the bubble, but every single IA-2 received for testing at our units so far are the 7.62 version, that's the one that will enter as the main service rifle, and it looks nothing like the model you posted.

7.62 version


5.56 version (your model)

Yes, because the 7.62 is better at jungle as it is most likely to not ricochet at each vine it touches, we know that.

And I think that I posted a thousand times that we'll have the bloody 5.56, and recently I told that we gonna have the FAL.

BTW, seems like someone is back in black:

Why exactly would we be fielding 2 different weapons, using 2 different cartridges, while filling the same role? Sounds like a logistical nightmare.

Well, as it seems you didn't read previous posts:

SShadowFox wrote:As I saw in some Devcasts, the Devs are focusing on having a realistic gear for all the teams, so I'll do the same here.

The Brazilian Army doesn't use much scoped weapons, as they are pretty useless at jungles in which you can normally see 50 meters in front of you before being blocked by the trees, so the long range weapon (which would be the scoped IA-2), will now be the FN FAL.

SShadowFox wrote:Well, as it seems you didn't read previous posts:

I read that, and if that's the case, why on earth would you still be modelling the IA-2?

HELL.

If the Squad is going to a more open place, the SL can tell the SMs to choose the FAL in order to be more effective at long range, in the other hand, if the Squad is going to a closed place, such as buildings, the SL can tell the SMs to choose the IA-2 to be more effective at close range.

SShadowFox wrote:HELL.

If the Squad is going to a more open place, the SL can tell the SMs to choose the FAL in order to be more effective at long range, in the other hand, if the Squad is going to a closed place, such as buildings, the SL can tell the SMs to choose the IA-2 to be more effective at close range.

And since when is this viable, logistics wise? You will have to carry double the amount of ammunition, double the amount of spare parts, train every soldier in both weapon systems and so on and so forth. This will not happen IRL, why should it happen in PR? I think the "R" in it stands for Reality, but i might be mistaken.

Now, i know i'm not in the Brazilian Forces development team, but if i'm going to see my country's Army in the game, and i can comment on it, I'll want to see it portrayed in the most realistic form it can possibly be portrayed. Except for the ammunition shortage.

So, I'll take a suggestion, what do you want? The IA-2 with a Scope for everyone and removing the FAL, or having the FAL with a Scope and removing the IA-2?

Because this discussion won't end so easily if I keep trying to convince you.

Just remember that there is a guy doing the IA-2 that will probably not like this, also take note that the Brazilian Army doesn't use Scope the same way and amount that the US Army does.

SShadowFox wrote:So, I'll take a suggestion, what do you want? The IA-2 with a Scope for everyone and removing the FAL, or having the FAL with a Scope and removing the IA-2?

Because this discussion won't end so easily if I keep trying to convince you.

Just remember that there is a guy doing the IA-2 that will probably not like this, also take note that the Brazilian Army doesn't use Scope the same way and amount that the US Army does.

I'd use the FAL for everyone and that's that. But since doing this would leave some poor soul who did the modelling very unhappy, i'd budge for IA-2s as Squad Leader Alt kit without scope.

I'm aware we don't use scopes, the only guys using optics regularly are the special forces operators. The rest of the army barely has some Bushnells or Leopolds for the sniper rifles. But not giving optics to the Brazilian Forces would turn them into beefed up insurgents with a bullseye for a helmet.

Random EB guy using an FAL with optics.

I have no idea of the make and model of the scope, but it looks similar to a Hensoldt ZF 4x24, maybe the MEC scope could be used as a placeholder.

Henrique_Dalben wrote:I'd use the FAL for everyone and that's that. But since doing this would leave some poor soul who did the modelling very unhappy, i'd budge for IA-2s as Squad Leader Alt kit without scope.

I still want it with an ACOG;

Henrique_Dalben wrote:I'm aware we don't use scopes, the only guys using optics regularly are the special forces operators. The rest of the army barely has some Bushnells or Leopolds for the sniper rifles. But not giving optics to the Brazilian Forces would turn them into beefed up insurgents with a bullseye for a helmet.

This is why people should learn how to use suppressive fire, they gonna have the MINIMI and the MAG, this is enough to keep the enemy heads down while a group is flanking them.

But it's much easier to give them a scope.

Anyway, I'll see what I can do for you, however I have many other important things to do...

My suggestion was to keep the IA-2 only for SLs, simulating the slow introducement of the rifle into the force.

BTW, think about it: the rain forest in PR will be mostly CQC fighting, the FAL will be AWFUL for this as it got a huge recoil due to its high caliber. We can't simulate decent bullet penetration on BF2 engine to make it an advantage for the FAL. Even if it was a forest mostly made of sprites, in a fight, people would be shoting randomly just to return fire until the enemy gets near enough for them to see it and acually engage it properly. The FARCs' AKs and M16A1s will pretty much rape our HUEHUE infantry as they are both good weapons on CQB unlike the FAL. Also, our CAS will be useless as we can't put trees down with rockets (but the CAS problem could actually be solved with sprites or a lot of non solid trees).

It will be Ins paradise and frustrating for Bluefor. You guys will really need to work your maps to balance it.

About the scopes, as already said, we really got very few. Only the Marksman and Sniper classes should have it.

But, get an AAS suggestion for the future: French Forces vs Brazilian Forces fighting for the French Guiana.

You don't even make a proper suggestion mate, that "HUEHUE" just made me ignore your whole post, but after a while, I decided to act as if there is no "HUEHUE" on your post and read what you wrote.

Death! wrote:My suggestion was to keep the IA-2 only for SLs, simulating the slow introducement of the rifle into the force.

And what do you think the guy above suggested?

Death! wrote:BTW, think about it: the rain forest in PR will be mostly CQC fighting, the FAL will be AWFUL for this as it got a huge recoil due to its high caliber.

This is why you shouldn't "sit the finger" on the mouse button, remember that only 2 shots are what you need to kill someone using a FAL or a G3.

Death! wrote:We can't simulate decent bullet penetration on BF2 engine to make it an advantage for the FAL.

Where did you see that? The BF2 Engine can simulate bullet penetration very well, it only need a few hours of coding to get everything nice. So you can easily make a 7.62 round penetrate a thin wall, but you wouldn't be able to get that penetrating a tree because it is impossible for a 7.62 cartridge to do so.

Death! wrote:[...] until the enemy gets near enough for them to see it and acually engage it properly.

It's a forest, when you see the enemy it'll be already close enough to fire without worrying.

Death! wrote:Also, our CAS will be useless as we can't put trees down with rockets (but the CAS problem could actually be solved with sprites or a lot of non solid trees).

It would mean that people could get trough a tree without problem using vehicles and even on foot.

I'll tell you a trick to know how things work, place an Artillery IED then hide behind a tree 100/150 meters away and detonate it, you will survive with only the suppression effect, now place another Artillery IED on the side of a tree then hide on the other side, detonate it, you gonna be dead.

The same happens when a bomb explodes if you are on the "Certain Dead" zone, which means you will be killed even if you are behind some cover that wouldn't be able to protect you, this is why if a bomb explodes on the top of the bunker you leave unhurt.

Death! wrote:It will be Ins paradise and frustrating for Bluefor. You guys will really need to work your maps to balance it.

No, people should work their tactics, leave Muttrah a bit and you'll know what I meant.

Death! wrote:But, get an AAS suggestion for the future: French Forces vs Brazilian Forces fighting for the French Guiana.

And why would Brazil want the French Guiana? It would be just one more piece of forest that the government wouldn't know how to deal with, just like the Amazon.

But if you want it, you can do it.

The only project I have on the AAS will only be started when I finish what I have to do for the Project Normandy mini-mod.

SShadowFox wrote:You don't even make a proper suggestion mate, that "HUEHUE" just made me ignore your whole post, but after a while, I decided to act as if there is no "HUEHUE" on your post and read what you wrote.

Don't be mad by a silly joke, though. :v

SShadowFox wrote:This is why you shouldn't "sit the finger" on the mouse button, remember that only 2 shots are what you need to kill someone using a FAL or a G3.

I guess people will die by AK fire before being able to fire the second shot. Try using a FAL on Ins as Cell Leader and you will know what I am talking about. You can only kill people if they are distracted.

Where did you see that? The BF2 Engine can simulate bullet penetration very well, it only need a few hours of coding to get everything nice. So you can easily make a 7.62 round penetrate a thin wall, but you wouldn't be able to get that penetrating a tree because it is impossible for a 7.62 cartridge to do so.

I ain't a modder expert but I think it is a bit different than just code a single fence, will require a lot of work. It is just a guess, looking forward to be wrong.

SShadowFox wrote:It's a forest, when you see the enemy it'll be already close enough to fire without worrying.

It would mean that people could get trough a tree without problem using vehicles and even on foot.

Well, it is better than the annoying, static and solid bamboo on Ghost Train. You don't need to turn all the vegetation non solid, just a few simulating small bushes that we could just get through. We got this in Vietnam and it is cool.

SShadowFox wrote:I'll tell you a trick to know how things work, place an Artillery IED then hide behind a tree 100/150 meters away and detonate it, you will survive with only the suppression effect, now place another Artillery IED on the side of a tree then hide on the other side, detonate it, you gonna be dead.

The same happens when a bomb explodes if you are on the "Certain Dead" zone, which means you will be killed even if you are behind some cover that wouldn't be able to protect you, this is why if a bomb explodes on the top of the bunker you leave unhurt.

Noice.

SShadowFox wrote:No, people should work their tactics, leave Muttrah a bit and you'll know what I meant.

Good point, but Muttrah is a bit different because it got clean streets and 200+ meters fights beyond only real tight fightings. The G3 with the current scope does the mid range fight very well, but the forest fightings will be almost all of them really at close range. I guess the gameplay in rain forest will feel A LITTLE like Fools Road.

SShadowFox wrote:And why would Brazil want the French Guiana? It would be just one more piece of forest that the government wouldn't know how to deal with, just like the Amazon.

But if you want it, you can do it.

The only project I have on the AAS will only be started when I finish what I have to do for the Project Normandy mini-mod.

Well, we could use our imagination to elaborate a plausible and realistic plot. I was just making a suggestion and seeing if you guys like it. We already got French Forces almost done so we would "just" need maps and few changes on French Army.

Just wondering, by any chance don't you guys want to take this opportunity to help your country's team?

Any non-skilled guy can take mapping, for e.g.